Thursday, May 19, 2011

The New Reader's Guide to Commandments of Men

I want to make sure you understand what's going on here in the event you've stopped by and decided "this guy's nuts" or some variation thereof, and also, I want to address a recurring opinion or two that some have about my experience.


As to whether I'm nuts, well, that's entirely possible. If you find me obsessive, you're probably right. I probably am obsessive. Seems to be a common trait among people with musical inclination. The span of time between seriously applying myself to the piano and becoming a session pianist/keyboard player and being hired to play on other people's records was a total of three years - with no formal training and with hardly a day going by where 6-8 hours weren't spent practicing, sometimes until fingernails bled. Thank God for obsession. Personally, the adjective I prefer is "dedicated", even "committed", but hey, that's just me. If you prefer to view me in a poor light and use the more dark and sinister portrayal of "obsessive", knock yourself out.


For those of you who say "How can you even call yourself a Christian and be so angry, so loud, and use such strong and offensive language?" Well, as to my faith, I think I make where I stand very clear at the link above that says "Jesus Christ". If what you read there doesn't satisfy you, chances are I'll never be invited to a BBQ or an Uno tournament at your house, cause there's gonna be a whole heck of a lot you aren't gonna like about this blog. As far as the emotion, how exactly are you measuring that? Not by Christ? When I read the gospels, I see a Jesus who sometimes spoke softly, but who also sometimes yelled, who sometimes called people very unbecoming names, who spoke so pointedly that people would cease following him, who once got so angry he caused property damage, who made people so mad at him that they conspired to find a way to kill him. By modern church standards, Jesus would be required to take anger management and sensitivity classes (and would probably be crucified again by modern church leaders). Let's be careful that we aren't shaping Christianity, and our expectations of Christians, into OUR OWN preferred or culturally crafted image, because frankly, most of us (including me) do when we aren't careful. Jesus was the most emotionally complicated individual who ever walked the earth, and ALL that he did, whether softly or forcefully, was done from passion. Don't put Him, or those who put their faith in Him, in an emotional box. My emotional, passionate writing style isn't gonna be changing, so if you plan to keep visiting here, buckle up.


If you question what this blog is about, just read the description below the banner at the top. It isn't hidden. 


If you question where I stand on all things Patriarchy, you should read this. If that got you lathered up at me, then you can read this. That should remove all gray area. If you don't like my take on "speaking the truth in love" in that last link, don't read here.


Quiverfull? Read here.


Courtship? It's your lucky day. Read here. Plenty of other material in the archives to scratch your courtship itch, too. Courtship is generally practiced as an extremely superficial, external means of addressing internal, heart issues - personal responsibility, personal discipline, and self-control - and giving people the superficial option of blaming it all on God. If you practice or promote it, you may want to examine your entire belief system a bit more closely, because you've probably got at least one foot planted very firmly in legalism.


My advice to young women oppressed and abused by these movements can be found here, and that advice won't be changing.


And before you waste your breath or burn half a calorie typing up an indignant email or comment, please, PLEASE, do all of us the courtesy of reading THIS.


For those who think I need to just "move past" all of this...No thanks. I'd rather it "move with" me as I "move on". Other people can benefit from what happened to me, what I've learned from it, and what I'm still learning from it - and hopefully, from the passion it created.


For those who are generally sympathetic to my viewpoints but believe that God ultimately "did me a favor", the last 3 years haven't exactly been a trip to Disney World (read here - this crap almost killed me), so I might be prone to pass on the next "favor" God wants to do for me. While I can appreciate where that sentiment comes from, if I were to blame ANY of this on God, I don't think that'd be a God I could willingly worship. I'm more inclined to believe that God has come in and allowed me to (hopefully) make something good and positive for others out of what some very twisted people, PEOPLE, did to me while disgustingly flying His flag and following these apostate teachings.


While I don't believe in returning evil for evil, I also recognize that if you're gonna wrestle with a pig (which these belief systems, when taught and practiced as essentials, ARE) you gotta get in the mud. I don't ever want to be accused of being afraid to get my hands dirty in doing the right thing.


ETA: For you Domestic Discipline lovers and defenders who straggle in occasionally due to the behest of other DD blogs to come here and fight DD's battles - It's either total kink, or abuse, or emotional deficiency and dysfunction. There are no other options. Most of the time it's just KINK and playing spanky-spanky. Just freakin' call it what it is. You may call it "beautiful and intimate", but I'm more persuaded by the abused and desperate sentiment of the women who've reached out to me who were beaten with vacuum cleaner power cables, or who were made to strip naked and be beaten by several men.


ETA: While I love the books of the bible, I don't worship the bible. Although I have in the past (even here on the blog), and sometimes still do out of habit (a habit I'm trying to curb), I don't like to refer to the bible as "God's Word". I don't consider it infallible and inerrant. It's a collection of 66 different books written by a plethora of extremely diverse authors. It contains SOME of God's words, SOME of Christ's words, some words about God and Christ, some words and opinions of men - some of which I believe to have been inspired by God, some inspired by ancient culture, some of it pulled right out of the writer's rear-end (a southern expression) - and some pretty big contradictions which I no longer have the desire to explain away "spiritually" so I can sleep better at night. I don't worship the biblical canon, and you'll lose me at "hello" if you come at me with the "God's Word says..." stuff. 


With all of that said...Welcome.

63 comments:

  1. No more than usual, I suppose...Just a steady stream of the same old questions, tired accusations, et cetera as new people read.

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  2. Well...come on up for a BBQ anytime. We'll duke out theology, politics, soil analysis, women, kids, music, dumpster diving, and interior decorating - all over a game of Uno. My wife makes killer grub and the kids would climb all over you thinking you're the greatest thing since sliced bread. (Thankfully, they've done it to the in-laws, hopefully chasing them away for good).

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  3. lol...If I ever make it back up in that direction, I'll take you up on that.

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  4. I get the nasties as well Lewis. Some days it bothers me, but with time I have learned to feel sorry for them.

    Until the day Christians decide they will live by the word they claim they do by actions, and not spiritual pixie dust? They will just have to get used to me. I'm not going anywhere.

    They don't like the darkness coming into the light, and they certainly don't like to talk about how the darkness harmed people - esplly when their teachings were involved.

    When they work on their rudeness, and pride? That is when the true 'talking' begins. That would mean they would have to stop looking down their noses at us, and being upset over their man made teachings that harmed. Humility means they would have to admit that, and that isn't something they are ready to do.

    Until that time? I guess I will be a thorn in their side. They will have to get used to it. Their excuses about how some just refuse to live up to standards - and that is why the bitterness is there - is just a diversion.

    We are all sinners, and sadly its their bitterness that harms others.

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  5. Well im a long timd reader lol ;) how corny does that sound? But anyway after reading that im shocked that their could be people being what would you call them that stupid. Im sorry but religion doesnt work period Christ shows us that it doesnt work. Anyways Lewis your welcome in my part of the world anytime as well your truth telling doesnt offend me. signed Adrian

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  6. The teaching of patriarchy and the pressure to push people into molds is on the increase.

    While I homeschooled I could see this apostasy gaining a foothold.

    If you ask me, there aren't enough people raising the alarm against the damage of this aberrant and spiritually bankrupt movement.

    So the last thing I want you to do, Lewis, is to lighten up or cut the neo-patriarchs any slack or give them the benefit of a doubt.

    What is done in secret needs to be proclaimed from the rooftops.

    And to the neo-patriarchs that aren't as psychotic as your former future father-in-law, all I can say is this:
    I don't care how much "love" and "care" you have for your family, your house is built on a foundation of sand and rot. It is not based on anything Jesus taught. Therefore it doesn't represent the Gospel on any level. No matter how much you argue and scream that it represents the heart of God, all your words defending it are nothing more than noisy gongs teaching darkness and destruction.

    May God deliver all those enticed by the deep deception of patriarchy.

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  7. I'd also like to BBQ and I'm bringing my kids too who are all too big to climb on you, ages ranging from 14 to 22. But they will give you some serious competition in the Uno tournement.

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  8. My kids range from 1 year to 9. We're NEVER having another one. Made quite sure of that. But, they'll give your squirts a run for their money in Trivial Pursuit, Mara Reid. Uno is child's play for them. They went up against Big Blue in chess and won. My 1 year old even beats me in checkers at Cracker Barrel from time to time.

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  9. Lewis, thank you for speaking up in spite of the questions, hurtful comments, and re-hashing of the pain. There are those out here who are very grateful to you.

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  10. Thanks Lewis! I appreciate your candor. Your story breaks my heart and makes my blood boil.

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  11. I was raised in an alcoholic home. The main message? "Don't talk about it. Sweep it under the carpet. Find ways to excuse it and justify it. No one must know."

    From there I went, not surprisingly, to a controlling, cult-like Dominionist church. The main message? Exactly the same.

    How did I come out of it and find healing? "Talk about it. Pull it out from under the carpet and display it for anyone who wants to see. Stop excusing and justifying it. People must know."

    I see that you're on the same course, Lewis, and I want to encourage you to keep doing what you're doing. It will bring healing and sanity to yourself and could do some real good to those who will listen. Those who will not, are not your responsibility, but the worst thing you could do for them is to heed their words: "Don't talk about it. Sweep it under the carpet. Find ways to excuse it and justify it. No one must know."

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  12. The folks who don't like the language or the anger or the passion-- well, they don't have a clue. Annoying yes, but those types will always be around. Heck, what am I saying? I *was* one of those types for decades :)

    What slays me are the, 'you're better off' comments. I know folks generally mean well but dadgumit, Lewis! That hurts all the way over here.

    Because fundamentally, that's what this patriarchal crap teaches-- don't listen to your heart or those evil feelings of yours, let someone else decide for you. Big Daddy, who is so wise and wonderful and Godly, can make this decision. Otherwise you might make a mistake and get your heart broken-- tsk, tsk.

    NO NO NO NO NO!

    they try to avoid the messiness of life by taking free will away from adults.

    How about we just take something mysterious and wonderful and, yes, risky, and castrate it. Doesn't that sound like fun?

    Got to stop or *I'm* gonna need anger management...

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  13. It's your blog, write what you want and don't worry about the people who will always be there to tear you down in some way!! I take tremendous crap--often to my email--for the things I write about the Duggars no matter how nice I try to be. It just goes with blogging. Keep telling your story the way you want to and the way you feel you must. We'll all still be here.

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  14. I like your blog. You're a funny writer and you make excellent observations, although I'm a heathen so my standards are different from your average church lady's view. If only more Christians had the same combination of reason and humour...

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  15. To all of you who visit here regularly, your support is appreciated, and no worries - public opinion won't be determining the content here.

    This post is just my way of addressing the stream of the same tired old arguments and such from new readers. I'll probably stick this one somewhere near the top of the page or on the sidebar where newer readers will be sure to see it.

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  16. I really, really appreciate how you don't mince words. I wish I could be more like that where it counts.

    Ever think about publishing some of these emails, for a laugh if they deserve it, or just so we see what you have to deal with behind the scenes?

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  17. CLDG...That thought has crossed my mind, but I'd rather people know that what they write to me is received and handled discreetly and privately - even the crazier stuff. While some of them probably deserve to be published just because they're so nonsensical, I don't want to cause anyone who writes for other purposes (particularly those who need help) to be afraid of writing for fear of what I'll do with their email.

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  18. You're one brave man Lewis, and I appreciate your honesty and candor very much. Don't ever stop!

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  19. I don't know how brave I am, Violet, but thanks.

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  20. You and this blog are a gift, Lewis. Thank you for making Jesus your focus and for fighting the good fight. Keep hanging in there. Thank you for all you do.

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  21. I love your blog, of course....most of the hits on my blog come from here. ;)

    You're still getting people from the DD world?! That's crazy.

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  22. Lew, as painful as it was to read your story - it was very timely in my journey of healing. When you write about things your ex-fiancee said or did it was like getting punched in the stomach - I *was* her! I can feel the range of emotions, the begging of my fiancee to please just go along we could get married. All of it! I'm SO sorry for what you had to go through. I did marry my guy...but I called him yesterday and told him how much guilt I had for all he had to go through. THANK YOU for being willing to share.

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  23. I find you to be a little schizophrenic in what you say is your intent in writing. You say, 'For the last several years, I've been dedicated to building God's people up through the bible, and when I see it used to constrain them, it makes me very angry. I'm very jealous for the simple gospel of Christ and the liberating, nourishing use of scripture.', making it sound like the Bible is your guide for what you say. But then you say, I don't like to refer to the bible as "God's Word". I don't consider it infallible and inerrant. It's a collection of 66 different books written by a plethora of extremely diverse authors. It contains SOME of God's words, SOME of Christ's words, some words about God and Christ, some words and opinions of men - some of which I believe to have been inspired by God, some inspired by ancient culture, some of it pulled right out of the writer's rear-end (a southern expression) - and some pretty big contradictions which I no longer have the desire to explain away "spiritually" so I can sleep better at night. I don't worship the biblical canon, and you'll lose me at "hello" if you come at me with the "God's Word says..." stuff.' So, I don't understand why you would use the Bible as the 'authority' for your counsel while at the same time refusing to believe it in its entirety. What makes you able to pick and choose and decide what is true in it, and what isn't? Just that information about you would make listening to any other counsel from you suspect in my mind.

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  24. So, I don't understand why you would use the Bible as the 'authority' for your counsel while at the same time refusing to believe it in its entirety.

    I don't either. That's why I no longer use it as the ultimate 'authority', and frankly, haven't in quite some time.

    What makes you able to pick and choose and decide what is true in it, and what isn't?

    Maybe you should ask the bible. There's an answer to your question in it - an answer pretty much neglected by Christianity these days.

    Just that information about you would make listening to any other counsel from you suspect in my mind.

    If you don't like it, you know where the door is.

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  25. I wanted to say, I am sorry for your loss, and for your grief, and for the woman who you lost/left you. It's horrible.

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  26. Thanks for writing, Lewis. Definitely appreciate what you have to say.

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  27. Thank you for your blog, Lewis.

    Thank you for speaking out about the terrible things that people do in the name of Christianity.

    I tell my family and friends that I am atheist, because it is easier to endure their scorn than accept their twisted and fundamental version of what they think Christians should be.

    In my heart I love Christ, but I have been afraid of saying I am Christian or joining a specific church because every time I lean in that direction, everyone starts telling me how to think and how to act, and to not do exactly as they say, I am told that I am not a true Christian and I get shunned anyway.

    Fundamentalism scares me, so I guess I use the label of "atheist" to shield myself from the things and the people who would use the Word of God to harm and control me.

    So thank you for your blog and everything you have to say. It lets me know that there are rational people who exist and love Christ like I do. It encourages me to be more forthcoming in my beliefs and prepares me for the confrontations with those close to me who subscribe to the My Way Or The Highway types of fundamental Christian beliefs that I find frightning and stiffling.

    Thank you again, for your courage to speak out. I am sure I am not the only person whom your words have both helped and comforted.

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  28. Guess you missed the memo in 2 Tim 3:16:

    ALL Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right.

    That's pretty black and white dude!
    Don't miss out on the best letter you could ever receive from God. HIS Word!!!! (Embrace the phrase)

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  29. 'Thank you for making Jesus your focus and for fighting the good fight.'

    Fail to see how you're making Jesus your focus when you're saying you don't believe in the Bible as truth. Where you getting your facts about Him from? Are you making them up?

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  30. Anon 9:32 & 9:35...

    "Guess you missed the memo in 2 Tim 3:16:

    ALL Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right."


    When Paul wrote what is now considered 2nd Timothy 3:16, was he talking about 2nd Timothy 3:16? I'll take it even a step beyond this - When Paul wrote 2nd Timothy 3:16, was there such a thing as the New Testament, or even a "bible"?

    Please don't surrender your mind to fundamentalist group-think and follow the herd off a cliff. Think for yourself (because you aren't), and use some common sense.

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  31. 'I'll take it even a step beyond this - When Paul wrote 2nd Timothy 3:16, was there such a thing as the New Testament, or even a "bible"?'

    Why is that even relevant, you can't deny what it states....the book has been tested. Have you ever read the Case for Christ by Lee Strobel...one of many guys who set out to prove it wasn't true only to be completely convinced it was truth!

    Forgive me but the only cult I'm seeing here is the one you are trying to start by hating on people trying to live by God's standards. (And making your own standards for your beliefs) That's not love hating them. That's not what Christ Himself was about (if you only believe in parts about Him in the bible).


    I will ask you again, where do you get your information about what to believe if you don't believe in the bible?

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  32. "Why is that even relevant, you can't deny what it states"

    I hope, for your sake, that was satire.

    "Forgive me but the only cult I'm seeing here is the one you are trying to start by hating on people trying to live by God's standards."

    Wow.

    "I will ask you again, where do you get your information about what to believe if you don't believe in the bible?"

    You can stop putting words in my mouth anytime now.

    I'm curious - how much did you pay for Lee Strobel's book? I'm curious because I haven't charged you anything to read here and join my cult.

    If you don't like what I write here, don't let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

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  33. Hey, Master Lewis. I'm still with you buddy. What's my next spiritual step? Don't let these detractors deter you from dripping your word to us underlings. We need it. May your feet ever walk this earth and your fingers keep typing until they are cracked and bleeding.

    We will always worship you.

    Thanks Anonymous for making sure I stay in the fold.

    SA

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  34. "I will ask you again, where do you get your information about what to believe if you don't believe in the bible?"

    You can stop putting words in my mouth anytime now.



    You didn't answer the question....


    I apologize if I came across as passionate before...I am not trying to be rude but to also ask you to think like you have asked me.

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  35. "I am not trying to be rude but to also ask you to think like you have asked me."

    To be downright frank, Anonymous, I think your statement would be more accurate if "you have asked" had been left out.

    As to your question...What did Jesus promise you would lead you into all truth? The bible?

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  36. If you can't answer that question (in which you'll find the answer to the question directed at me), you've no business asking me any questions at all.

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  37. He promised his son....where do you get that from THE BIBLE!!!!!!!

    Aren't you contradicting yourself?

    You didn't again answer the question....seems like you are picking and choosing which parts of the bible to believe which is in essense making up your own religion.

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  38. Here's what bothers me:

    People who are sheep (following the religious status quo) look at others that say things that they disagree with as enemies of the other sheep. They think that the if the sheep around them hears the evil teacher, those sheep will be driven out of the comfortable sheep pen.

    Anonymous, I think that is selling your fellow sheep short. Not to mention those that read Lewis' blog. You assume people are stupid and move wherever people are talking the loudest.

    Consider the fact that all human beings are individuals. We can think for ourselves. If we don't like what Lewis is writing, then, by all means, we can move on, write something else, dialogue with him, or whatever. Trying to silence him for the betterment of who you consider non-thinking individuals is not helpful to those that DON'T think, as well as just serving to irritate those that actually think independently.

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  39. Ooops. Wrong answer. You don't get to ask more questions.

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  40. "Don't miss out on the best letter you could ever receive from God."

    You see, this is part of the problem. The Bible is a collection of books. Some of them are letters. But the whole Bible is not, nor does any Scripture claim it is, "the best letter you could ever receive from God." To read it as if it were a "letter from God" is to start from the wrong premise and thus to misread it.

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  41. "Let's be careful that we aren't shaping Christianity, and our expectations of Christians, into OUR OWN preferred or culturally crafted image," Your words, not mine.

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  42. Lewis,
    I just read much of your thoughts. Ouch. You carry a lot of hurt, and have reacted against it. I'm sure that there are problems with parents, but you are telling children (under 20) to walk away, 'blanket rule'? My friend, there is always a balance, and 2 sides, and if you'll admit it, rebellious hearts in children at times. You can't just tell them all to leave. It's wrong my friend.
    Remember, you're the one who said some Bible words are out of the writer's rear end (your southern expression). So it seems to boil down to our differences in who to revere (or not revere) the Book, and rather to believe or not believe that every Word of God is pure? Lewis, you're also reacting to the easy believism pharisies of our day who think all you have to do is exercise 'your' will and pray a prayer to be saved from hell - No repentance of sins. But like you, they just can't pick and choose what to believe from the Bible. It always leads to error.
    There are parents who trust God, don't lie to their children to maintain a false control, and pray and wait for the day when their children break the jar of dad's protection as they pursue God's perfect will for their lives. But they also believe that that jar is God's plan for families, and children are to obey their parents for this is right. It's right Lewis. Jesus died for sinners, and rose again with a reminder that we will be judged by HIS Words in the end; not the logic of your sad story. These young people have to ask God if they are to leave, and trust God to get them through every day. Often, I would differ with you and tell them NOT to leave, as much of your writing is laced with rebellion to authority itself. (don't jump on that too quickly-I've read your perspective-I think you're giving bad advise).
    How do we live? Are ALL of God's Words to be believed? Are we to listen to voices like Lewis who picks and chooses? If we are to shun the doctrines and commandments of men, is that not what Lewis is serving here, since he rejects the full authority of God's Word? Isn't God's way the best way? Can God deliver you from false religion and man centered religion?
    Yes He can. Read the Bible. King James has ALL the words. Read the book of John. Read Spurgeons book called "All of Grace". Read or listen to some of his sermons, or listen t some modern sermons by Paul Washer. It will be liberating, and give you what Lewis is trying to. Sit under Bible preaching somewhere. You need it. I won't be visiting this site again, but if you'd like to reply, I am Tim; 6 kids; and my email is tclifton@penn.com.

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    1. "How do we live? Are ALL of God's Words to be believed? Are we to listen to voices like Lewis who picks and chooses? If we are to shun the doctrines and commandments of men, is that not what Lewis is serving here, since he rejects the full authority of God's Word?"

      Which, BTW, is a commandment of men.

      "King James has ALL the words."

      Including "bi-sexual"...but shhh! Don't tell that to the KJV-only folk.


      I'd strongly suggest you read some of the materials here concerning religious addiction.

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    2. And keep in mind, folks, that Tim is telling you that it takes MORE than Jesus Christ - whether he realizes it or not.

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  43. I don't see a place to just contact you by e-mail, so I'm going to ask the question here and you can choose to delete the comment.

    I have been reading this blog for about a year, finding it to be a great source of info on all these aberrant movements. However, I have over the past year read comments either by you or commenters (can't remember when and where - I didn't take notes) which led me to believe you are egalitarian in your beliefs about the roles of women in church vs complementarian. While mentioning an article on this blog on my own blog, I stated I thought you were egalitarian and I was challenged about that. So I am checking with you so as not to be unintentionally misrepresenting your viewpoints. What's your view?

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    1. I don't see myself as part of either camp - egalitarian or complementarian. The majority of NT ideas on gender roles come from Paul, not from Christ, so I think any individual, male or female, has to rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit rather than literal interpretations of a man's opinion in a male-dominated political/social environment 2000 years ago. Otherwise, Paul's writing just becomes a NT version of law.

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  44. So you don't consider Paul's teaching to be authoritative? Paul was an apostle who claimed he got his teachings from Christ!

    I can accept that you don't chose a position in the egalitarian/complementarian debate, but to make the claim that it is just Paul's opinion and a "NT version of law" puts you at odds with centuries of Christian scholars. I find your attitude towards Paul to be dangerous.

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    1. "So you don't consider Paul's teaching to be authoritative? Paul was an apostle who claimed he got his teachings from Christ!"

      A lot of people today make the same claims as Paul. Should I just believe them because others do? Or should I examine the teachings and see what applies, what doesn't, who the original audience was, what the environment - socially, culturally, politically - of the original audience was? To consider Paul's writing absolutely "authorative" for me, when it wasn't written to me, is to use it as a version of law.

      "I can accept that you don't chose a position in the egalitarian/complementarian debate, but to make the claim that it is just Paul's opinion and a "NT version of law" puts you at odds with centuries of Christian scholars."

      My faith is based on Jesus Christ, not on the opinions of centuries of Christian scholars. It's directed by the Holy Spirit within me.

      "I find your attitude towards Paul to be dangerous."

      Why? Does it somehow diminish the gospel of Christ? It doesn't. Does it put me at odds with the two great commandments? It doesn't. So...why? Is it not religious enough?

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  45. Benny Hinn claims he gets his teachings from Christ. So does Bill Gothard. So does Doug Phillips. Are you going to treat them the same as Paul?

    Or, is it the thousands of years of acceptance that makes you believe everything Paul says. Well, if that is true, you better read up on the works of Mohammed and also the Rig Veda. Many centuries of scholars have accepted those as valid and directly from God or their way.

    That argument falls pretty flat and removes the exercise of thinking from your daily acceptance of, well, really everything.

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  46. Paul wasn't just "any man" - he was an apostle who taught what Christ taught him. You saying that a lot of people make the same claims is not a logical response - many people claim to be Christ also, but that doesn't diminish the true Christ.

    Paul's teachings about roles in the Church were based on Creation, not culture; that is where he goes back to. There is nothing in any of Paul's teachings that should be relegated to culture. And it was written to you if you are a member of the Church, because Paul said his teachings were for all churches every where.

    When your beliefs are at odds with the writings of the 1st and 2nd century Christians, let alone all the scholarship of studying the languages, etc since that time, and you claim it is because YOU have the Holy Spirit guiding you, I don't see how your claim is any different than any cult leader. The Christian faith is based on the ENTIRE Word of God, including Paul's teachings. If you through out Paul your N.T. is very, very small and limited. It is Paul's teachings which flesh out exactly what the Gospel is, etc.

    It isn't that your beliefs aren't "religious" enough - it is that you have decided for yourself what is the Word of God and what is not. While you do a good job of exposing the horrendous legalistic systems developed by man, you have developed your own system of denouncing Scripture you don't agree with. And THAT is dangerous.

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    1. *Yawn. Anyone have a bowl of popcorn? Eagerly waiting for Lewis' reply. Our cult leader MUST answer this grave charge!

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    2. In other words, I should believe it because someone else says it's so?

      "it is that you have decided for yourself what is the Word of God and what is not."

      Yes, I have. Everyone does. You have to do the same - for yourself - or you're really just worshiping a collection of books.

      So, it's not enough for me to believe that Christ is my reconcilation to God?...but I also have to believe that the canon, as crafted by men, is authoritative, and accept and apply everything in it as if it were written to me? It takes Christ PLUS the biblical canon and all it entails?

      This complicates a simple gospel.

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    3. "you have developed your own system of denouncing Scripture you don't agree with. And THAT is dangerous."

      I've denounced no scripture. What I've done is refuse to blindly accept it as inerrant and inspired just because someone else says it is. Big, BIG, difference.

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    4. "There is nothing in any of Paul's teachings that should be relegated to culture."

      Slavery? Men and long hair? Women remaining silent in the church? I could go on - so are you sure you want to be rigid on that belief?

      "When your beliefs are at odds with the writings of the 1st and 2nd century Christians, let alone all the scholarship of studying the languages, etc since that time, and you claim it is because YOU have the Holy Spirit guiding you, I don't see how your claim is any different than any cult leader."

      No claim any Christian makes is any different than any cult leader if the listeners aren't willing to examine it. And, Jesus, Himself, made the claim that the Holy Spirit guides us - but we can't get our noses out of Paul's letters long enough to acknowledge that claim. That's something I bring up regularly here on the blog. We weren't promised "the bible" to lead us into all truth.

      "The Christian faith is based on the ENTIRE Word of God, including Paul's teachings."

      If by "Word of God" you mean Jesus, I couldn't agree more. If by "Word of God" you mean the biblical canon, then Jesus just got the shaft, because you're saying a simple faith in Christ isn't enough.

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  47. If you people are comparing Paul to these heretics, YOU have a real problem.

    I have discovered you people here are no different than any other cult. I guess I will not be visiting this site again.

    Goodbye.

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    1. You keep making sure no one tears the spiritual tags off of spiritual mattresses if you want.

      This was a can of worms YOU decided to open. It's not on anyone here.

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    2. "If you people are comparing Paul to these heretics, YOU have a real problem."

      LOL! Nobody ever said that. What I believe was said was that, if one is a follower of Christ, they will compare the documented message of Christ to ANY man - including Paul. Nobody is above scrutiny.

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    3. I have a feeling Glenn E. Chatfield came here for a fight. His initial question was simply a setup. If you go to his profile, you can get a taste of who he really is by the blogs he follows.

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  48. I think the problem with Paul, particularly concerning gender issues relates back to the very advanced level of Greek that Paul wrote. Reading the Book of John is like "Dick and Jane" and Paul is like reading "Moby Dick," to pick iconic American authors for the sake of analogy. I believe that people can fall into the trap of "Gender Biased English Translation Theology" as Andersen has defined it, but if a person becomes skilled enough, I find that Paul prohibited women from NO ministry (though he didn't affirm women strongly in the role specifically either). Pau's Greek is harder to discern, and the English translations of it 2000 years later don't make all of that abundantly clear.

    I think that the other mitigating issue is not only the mission of this blog but the significance of why gender has anything to do with the discussion of the material. I don't think Lewis ever set out to write a "discernment blog" but has endeavored to chronicle his experience and part of his journey out of the aftermath created by the patriarchy movement. It is what it is -- a critical look at the garbage taught in some of these groups in an effort to hopefully help others who are also making their way out of the mire of this stuff.

    I think some may believe this is what is qualified as a "discernment blog," and I don't think that was ever the intent of the host, from what I understand.

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    1. Editorial and commentary is what I've always considered it. "Discernment" in the sense that I hope to provoke thought rather than blind acceptance, particularly critical thought about the hows and whys of what we believe, but theology has never been the primary goal here. People too often get lost and suffer in the abyss of theology.

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