tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post7967653628230517439..comments2024-01-04T15:56:19.156-05:00Comments on Commandments of Men: The New Reader's Guide to Commandments of MenLewishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comBlogger63125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-44558939508962244102012-03-01T00:00:05.334-05:002012-03-01T00:00:05.334-05:00Editorial and commentary is what I've always c...Editorial and commentary is what I've always considered it. "Discernment" in the sense that I hope to provoke thought rather than blind acceptance, particularly critical thought about the hows and whys of what we believe, but theology has never been the primary goal here. People too often get lost and suffer in the abyss of theology.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-77744787964684432042012-02-29T23:50:12.792-05:002012-02-29T23:50:12.792-05:00I think the problem with Paul, particularly concer...I think the problem with Paul, particularly concerning gender issues relates back to the very advanced level of Greek that Paul wrote. Reading the Book of John is like "Dick and Jane" and Paul is like reading "Moby Dick," to pick iconic American authors for the sake of analogy. I believe that people can fall into the trap of "Gender Biased English Translation Theology" as Andersen has defined it, but if a person becomes skilled enough, I find that Paul prohibited women from NO ministry (though he didn't affirm women strongly in the role specifically either). Pau's Greek is harder to discern, and the English translations of it 2000 years later don't make all of that abundantly clear.<br /><br />I think that the other mitigating issue is not only the mission of this blog but the significance of why gender has anything to do with the discussion of the material. I don't think Lewis ever set out to write a "discernment blog" but has endeavored to chronicle his experience and part of his journey out of the aftermath created by the patriarchy movement. It is what it is -- a critical look at the garbage taught in some of these groups in an effort to hopefully help others who are also making their way out of the mire of this stuff.<br /><br />I think some may believe this is what is qualified as a "discernment blog," and I don't think that was ever the intent of the host, from what I understand.Cynthia Kunsmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08060294887790881860noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-7055122620700913772012-02-29T19:59:31.871-05:002012-02-29T19:59:31.871-05:00I have a feeling Glenn E. Chatfield came here for ...I have a feeling Glenn E. Chatfield came here for a fight. His initial question was simply a setup. If you go to his profile, you can get a taste of who he really is by the blogs he follows.Incongruous Circumspectionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16232186225573312896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-32337612858179241972012-02-29T19:58:19.817-05:002012-02-29T19:58:19.817-05:00"If you people are comparing Paul to these he..."If you people are comparing Paul to these heretics, YOU have a real problem."<br /><br />LOL! Nobody ever said that. What I believe was said was that, if one is a follower of Christ, they will compare the documented message of Christ to ANY man - including Paul. Nobody is above scrutiny.Incongruous Circumspectionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16232186225573312896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-76412572682506388482012-02-29T18:49:31.048-05:002012-02-29T18:49:31.048-05:00You keep making sure no one tears the spiritual ta...You keep making sure no one tears the spiritual tags off of spiritual mattresses if you want. <br /><br />This was a can of worms YOU decided to open. It's not on anyone here.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-54788441834154929652012-02-29T18:43:14.832-05:002012-02-29T18:43:14.832-05:00If you people are comparing Paul to these heretics...If you people are comparing Paul to these heretics, YOU have a real problem. <br /><br />I have discovered you people here are no different than any other cult. I guess I will not be visiting this site again.<br /><br />Goodbye.Glenn E. Chatfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117405535707961903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-16111097474030782212012-02-29T18:30:52.026-05:002012-02-29T18:30:52.026-05:00"There is nothing in any of Paul's teachi...<em>"There is nothing in any of Paul's teachings that should be relegated to culture."</em><br /><br />Slavery? Men and long hair? Women remaining silent in the church? I could go on - so are you sure you want to be rigid on that belief?<br /><br /><em>"When your beliefs are at odds with the writings of the 1st and 2nd century Christians, let alone all the scholarship of studying the languages, etc since that time, and you claim it is because YOU have the Holy Spirit guiding you, I don't see how your claim is any different than any cult leader."</em><br /><br />No claim any Christian makes is any different than any cult leader if the listeners aren't willing to examine it. And, Jesus, Himself, made the claim that the Holy Spirit guides us - but we can't get our noses out of Paul's letters long enough to acknowledge that claim. That's something I bring up regularly here on the blog. We weren't promised "the bible" to lead us into all truth.<br /><br /><em>"The Christian faith is based on the ENTIRE Word of God, including Paul's teachings."</em> <br /><br />If by "Word of God" you mean Jesus, I couldn't agree more. If by "Word of God" you mean the biblical canon, then Jesus just got the shaft, because you're saying a simple faith in Christ <b>isn't</b> enough.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-11282605043619002892012-02-29T18:20:32.935-05:002012-02-29T18:20:32.935-05:00"you have developed your own system of denoun...<em>"you have developed your own system of denouncing Scripture you don't agree with. And THAT is dangerous."</em><br /><br />I've denounced no scripture. What I've done is refuse to blindly accept it as inerrant and inspired just because someone else says it is. Big, BIG, difference.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-64596166480571535242012-02-29T18:18:12.574-05:002012-02-29T18:18:12.574-05:00In other words, I should believe it because someon...In other words, I should believe it because someone else says it's so?<br /><br /><em>"it is that you have decided for yourself what is the Word of God and what is not."</em><br /><br />Yes, I have. Everyone does. You have to do the same - <b>for yourself</b> - or you're really just worshiping a collection of books.<br /><br />So, it's not enough for me to believe that Christ is my reconcilation to God?...but I also have to believe that the canon, as crafted by men, is authoritative, and accept and apply everything in it as if it were written to me? It takes Christ PLUS the biblical canon and all it entails?<br /><br />This complicates a simple gospel.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-83460491027048062692012-02-29T18:15:11.427-05:002012-02-29T18:15:11.427-05:00*Yawn. Anyone have a bowl of popcorn? Eagerly wa...*Yawn. Anyone have a bowl of popcorn? Eagerly waiting for Lewis' reply. Our cult leader MUST answer this grave charge!Incongruous Circumspectionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16232186225573312896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-35337691940904964222012-02-29T17:54:18.363-05:002012-02-29T17:54:18.363-05:00Paul wasn't just "any man" - he was ...Paul wasn't just "any man" - he was an apostle who taught what Christ taught him. You saying that a lot of people make the same claims is not a logical response - many people claim to be Christ also, but that doesn't diminish the true Christ.<br /><br />Paul's teachings about roles in the Church were based on Creation, not culture; that is where he goes back to. There is nothing in any of Paul's teachings that should be relegated to culture. And it was written to you if you are a member of the Church, because Paul said his teachings were for all churches every where.<br /><br />When your beliefs are at odds with the writings of the 1st and 2nd century Christians, let alone all the scholarship of studying the languages, etc since that time, and you claim it is because YOU have the Holy Spirit guiding you, I don't see how your claim is any different than any cult leader. The Christian faith is based on the ENTIRE Word of God, including Paul's teachings. If you through out Paul your N.T. is very, very small and limited. It is Paul's teachings which flesh out exactly what the Gospel is, etc.<br /><br />It isn't that your beliefs aren't "religious" enough - it is that you have decided for yourself what is the Word of God and what is not. While you do a good job of exposing the horrendous legalistic systems developed by man, you have developed your own system of denouncing Scripture you don't agree with. And THAT is dangerous.Glenn E. Chatfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117405535707961903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-50985806294882646412012-02-29T17:43:34.658-05:002012-02-29T17:43:34.658-05:00"So you don't consider Paul's teachin...<em>"So you don't consider Paul's teaching to be authoritative? Paul was an apostle who claimed he got his teachings from Christ!"</em><br /><br />A lot of people today make the same claims as Paul. Should I just believe them because others do? Or should I examine the teachings and see what applies, what doesn't, who the original audience was, what the environment - socially, culturally, politically - of the original audience was? To consider Paul's writing absolutely "authorative" for me, when it wasn't written to me, is to use it as a version of law.<br /><br /><em>"I can accept that you don't chose a position in the egalitarian/complementarian debate, but to make the claim that it is just Paul's opinion and a "NT version of law" puts you at odds with centuries of Christian scholars."</em><br /><br />My faith is based on Jesus Christ, not on the opinions of centuries of Christian scholars. It's directed by the Holy Spirit within me.<br /><br /><em>"I find your attitude towards Paul to be dangerous."</em><br /><br />Why? Does it somehow diminish the gospel of Christ? It doesn't. Does it put me at odds with the two great commandments? It doesn't. So...why? Is it not religious enough?Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-84159515786062728042012-02-29T17:39:07.703-05:002012-02-29T17:39:07.703-05:00Benny Hinn claims he gets his teachings from Chris...Benny Hinn claims he gets his teachings from Christ. So does Bill Gothard. So does Doug Phillips. Are you going to treat them the same as Paul?<br /><br />Or, is it the thousands of years of acceptance that makes you believe everything Paul says. Well, if that is true, you better read up on the works of Mohammed and also the Rig Veda. Many centuries of scholars have accepted those as valid and directly from God or their way.<br /><br />That argument falls pretty flat and removes the exercise of thinking from your daily acceptance of, well, really everything.Incongruous Circumspectionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16232186225573312896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-51104594047327314922012-02-29T14:49:21.579-05:002012-02-29T14:49:21.579-05:00So you don't consider Paul's teaching to b...So you don't consider Paul's teaching to be authoritative? Paul was an apostle who claimed he got his teachings from Christ!<br /><br />I can accept that you don't chose a position in the egalitarian/complementarian debate, but to make the claim that it is just Paul's opinion and a "NT version of law" puts you at odds with centuries of Christian scholars. I find your attitude towards Paul to be dangerous.Glenn E. Chatfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117405535707961903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-21504319383834710892012-02-29T14:30:51.980-05:002012-02-29T14:30:51.980-05:00I don't see myself as part of either camp - eg...I don't see myself as part of either camp - egalitarian or complementarian. The majority of NT ideas on gender roles come from Paul, not from Christ, so I think any individual, male or female, has to rely on the leading of the Holy Spirit rather than literal interpretations of a man's opinion in a male-dominated political/social environment 2000 years ago. Otherwise, Paul's writing just becomes a NT version of law.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-72138810952027309022012-02-29T14:15:03.340-05:002012-02-29T14:15:03.340-05:00I don't see a place to just contact you by e-m...I don't see a place to just contact you by e-mail, so I'm going to ask the question here and you can choose to delete the comment.<br /><br />I have been reading this blog for about a year, finding it to be a great source of info on all these aberrant movements. However, I have over the past year read comments either by you or commenters (can't remember when and where - I didn't take notes) which led me to believe you are egalitarian in your beliefs about the roles of women in church vs complementarian. While mentioning an article on this blog on my own blog, I stated I thought you were egalitarian and I was challenged about that. So I am checking with you so as not to be unintentionally misrepresenting your viewpoints. What's your view?Glenn E. Chatfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117405535707961903noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-89646362609457452002012-02-18T15:56:58.202-05:002012-02-18T15:56:58.202-05:00And keep in mind, folks, that Tim is telling you t...And keep in mind, folks, that Tim is telling you that it takes MORE than Jesus Christ - whether he realizes it or not.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-46191744469104691812012-02-18T15:14:59.066-05:002012-02-18T15:14:59.066-05:00"How do we live? Are ALL of God's Words t...<em>"How do we live? Are ALL of God's Words to be believed? Are we to listen to voices like Lewis who picks and chooses? If we are to shun the doctrines and commandments of men, is that not what Lewis is serving here, since he rejects the full authority of God's Word?"</em><br /><br />Which, BTW, is a commandment of men.<br /><br /><em>"King James has ALL the words."</em><br /><br />Including "bi-sexual"...but shhh! Don't tell that to the KJV-only folk.<br /><br /><br />I'd <b>strongly</b> suggest you read some of the materials here concerning religious addiction.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-59283418347737211152012-02-18T09:09:33.795-05:002012-02-18T09:09:33.795-05:00Lewis,
I just read much of your thoughts. Ouch....Lewis,<br /> I just read much of your thoughts. Ouch. You carry a lot of hurt, and have reacted against it. I'm sure that there are problems with parents, but you are telling children (under 20) to walk away, 'blanket rule'? My friend, there is always a balance, and 2 sides, and if you'll admit it, rebellious hearts in children at times. You can't just tell them all to leave. It's wrong my friend.<br /> Remember, you're the one who said some Bible words are out of the writer's rear end (your southern expression). So it seems to boil down to our differences in who to revere (or not revere) the Book, and rather to believe or not believe that every Word of God is pure? Lewis, you're also reacting to the easy believism pharisies of our day who think all you have to do is exercise 'your' will and pray a prayer to be saved from hell - No repentance of sins. But like you, they just can't pick and choose what to believe from the Bible. It always leads to error.<br /> There are parents who trust God, don't lie to their children to maintain a false control, and pray and wait for the day when their children break the jar of dad's protection as they pursue God's perfect will for their lives. But they also believe that that jar is God's plan for families, and children are to obey their parents for this is right. It's right Lewis. Jesus died for sinners, and rose again with a reminder that we will be judged by HIS Words in the end; not the logic of your sad story. These young people have to ask God if they are to leave, and trust God to get them through every day. Often, I would differ with you and tell them NOT to leave, as much of your writing is laced with rebellion to authority itself. (don't jump on that too quickly-I've read your perspective-I think you're giving bad advise).<br /> How do we live? Are ALL of God's Words to be believed? Are we to listen to voices like Lewis who picks and chooses? If we are to shun the doctrines and commandments of men, is that not what Lewis is serving here, since he rejects the full authority of God's Word? Isn't God's way the best way? Can God deliver you from false religion and man centered religion?<br /> Yes He can. Read the Bible. King James has ALL the words. Read the book of John. Read Spurgeons book called "All of Grace". Read or listen to some of his sermons, or listen t some modern sermons by Paul Washer. It will be liberating, and give you what Lewis is trying to. Sit under Bible preaching somewhere. You need it. I won't be visiting this site again, but if you'd like to reply, I am Tim; 6 kids; and my email is tclifton@penn.com.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-75794212824128506012012-01-14T10:59:07.373-05:002012-01-14T10:59:07.373-05:00Indeed they are. And?Indeed they are. And?Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-7402103707480329472012-01-14T10:56:21.774-05:002012-01-14T10:56:21.774-05:00"Let's be careful that we aren't shap..."Let's be careful that we aren't shaping Christianity, and our expectations of Christians, into OUR OWN preferred or culturally crafted image," Your words, not mine.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-2311653370751548442012-01-09T00:06:10.746-05:002012-01-09T00:06:10.746-05:00sadsadAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-8801105579948533652011-11-12T01:26:03.670-05:002011-11-12T01:26:03.670-05:00"Don't miss out on the best letter you co..."Don't miss out on the best letter you could ever receive from God."<br /><br />You see, this is part of the problem. The Bible is a collection of books. Some of them are letters. But the whole Bible is not, nor does any Scripture claim it is, "the best letter you could ever receive from God." To read it as if it were a "letter from God" is to start from the wrong premise and thus to misread it.Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252374623355509404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-20131728751927899032011-11-11T22:56:54.292-05:002011-11-11T22:56:54.292-05:00Ooops. Wrong answer. You don't get to ask more...Ooops. Wrong answer. You don't get to ask more questions.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-70060797388639715552011-11-11T22:55:03.331-05:002011-11-11T22:55:03.331-05:00Here's what bothers me:
People who are sheep ...Here's what bothers me:<br /><br />People who are sheep (following the religious status quo) look at others that say things that they disagree with as enemies of the other sheep. They think that the if the sheep around them hears the evil teacher, those sheep will be driven out of the comfortable sheep pen.<br /><br />Anonymous, I think that is selling your fellow sheep short. Not to mention those that read Lewis' blog. You assume people are stupid and move wherever people are talking the loudest.<br /><br />Consider the fact that all human beings are individuals. We can think for ourselves. If we don't like what Lewis is writing, then, by all means, we can move on, write something else, dialogue with him, or whatever. Trying to silence him for the betterment of who you consider non-thinking individuals is not helpful to those that DON'T think, as well as just serving to irritate those that actually think independently.Incongruous Circumspectionhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16232186225573312896noreply@blogger.com