Thursday, December 29, 2011

The Purity Movement - Life in a Jar

I've compared P/QF to the People's Temple on several occasions. While the longterm goals differ a bit (a Christian theocracy for P/QF, with its leaders as profiteers - A socialist utopia in Jonestown, with Jim Jones living in absolute power), many elements of the characteristics of a destructive cult are found in both. Another, perhaps even better, comparison is to the FLDS. It's really sickening. It destroys people - from the inside out.

(Here's a big CLA for the rest of this post. I'm pretty emotionally "impure" after having watched the clips below.)

From the time you're born into a P/QF family, or from the time vulnerable, naive parents choose to begin following P/QF teachings and all its assorted little uglies - Christian homeschooling, purity, courtship, et cetera - you're planted in a jar. I once wrote the following...

"when you plant a seed in a jar, you sentence the plant that will result to a best case scenario of growing into the shape of the jar - but NEVER exceeding it. No matter how much the sprigs and shoots want to spread out and reach toward the sun that shines on them and gives them life, the jar forms a barrier that prevents it. More often than not, in the P/QF paradigm, the parents, particularly the father, play the role of the jar. Sadly, I think the reason that young women leaving the P/QF lifestyle encounter so much grief, resistance, and totally unnecessary and abusive drama is a simple one: For them to ever live in freedom, the jar has to be shattered. Few P/QF parents volunteer for as much. Exit is NEVER simple. NEVER easy. The jar has to shatter."

I still believe every word of that. More now than ever. The P/QF paradigm determines your life for you, makes your choices for you, tells you what you think, tells you what you believe. You're a resource in "God's greater plan and providence". You're only as valuable as your "purity" - sexual and emotional. Everything about your life in P/QF will tell you this. I want to tell you that's bullshit.

A friend recently sent me a link to a documentary about the purity movement. I'm gonna write a bit about it here. I almost have to. I watched some of it earlier today. There are 4 segments, and all I could handle was 3. I'm still furious from it, my stomach still literally in a knot. So much emotional ignorance, religious pride, complete stupidity. So many things which remind me of the idiocy (and accompanying idiots) I experienced.

Here's Part 1...

The woman who begins speaking at 00:20 (Khrystian Wilson - daughter of Randy) quite obviously has no idea what purity really is. To her, purity is about works, about the things she does. She doesn't appear to have a clue that she can do ALL of the things which she thinks keep her "pure", including "giving her heart" to daddy dearest, and her real heart, her inner being, can still be putrid and corrupt. She finds her value in the external element of sexual purity and the superficial element of emotional purity. She's most likely been brainwashed with this poison her entire life.

The woman who speaks at 1:22 (Jessica) mentions something I've written about here, how these girls are sooo far behind mentally and emotionally, something I noticed in my ex and her siblings long before I even knew what any of this crap was. I don't mean slightly behind. I'm talking about 13 year olds masquerading around in the bodies of 20somethings, or elementary aged minds and thinking (or lack thereof) in teenagers.

The guy who starts speaking at 1:50 (Ken Lane), aside from just coming across really creepy, he's reinforcing the milieu and indoctrination right there in the interview, even through his looks of affirmation given to his daughter as his states his key points. He's been brainwashed so deeply, and has bought into the propaganda so heavily, that he's completely numb to his own brainwashing tactics, freely engaging in them right in front of the camera. He isn't being brash. He's just that ignorant. "Why not shoot for the fairy-tale?" Ummm, maybe because life isn't a fairy-tale?...and because there's a reason that fairy-tales are a part of children's books and stories? Then again, when the day comes that he presents his daughter to her groom, he'll be presenting a child (regardless of her age), so maybe he's on to something.

And the whole ritualistic bunch of bull butter they're doing at this "purity ball"? Bringing in that cross is almost like spitting on Jesus. It's a mask. A smokescreen. Nobody at that purity ball gives a crap about Jesus. Daddy is being worshiped. Period. Little girls dressed up like fairies dancing around a cross, while the true object of their worship is daddy. It isn't the girls' fault. It's still sickening. It's like the dance of a geisha in training.

Randy Wilson, the guy responsible for this particular incest ba, err, I mean purity ball, comes across as being utterly rife with spiritual pride throughout the 3 segments I've watched. A "and they will know you by your Christianity" kinda guy. I'd dare say that if anyone is actually growing at his church, whether personally or spiritually, it's probably in spite of him. His wife Lisa, who first speaks at 2:44, is completely creating her description of the purity ball event as she goes. She doesn't want to use the "wrong" words, so she searches, speaking not so much from conviction as she does from initial creation. I almost feel like the event is, to her, nothing more than her chance to "play dress-up" with her daughters. It's especially disturbing when she says that she wants "romance" at a purity ball as an appeal to the sensibilities of these young girls. When the men involved are their freakin' fathers, that's just sick.

At around 4:00, Randy Wilson does what is obviously the Lord's work in letting women know how insecure they are inherently. And, by God, he knows how to fix it. It'll take a man.

Khrystian Wilson speaks again at around 4:40, and once again about issues she really has no valid frame of reference to talk about. She's just parroting. She's obviously not aware of that, being totally brainwashed, having been given digestible increments of the Kool-aid for probably her whole life, but she's still just serving as a mouthpiece for the opinions and ideas of other people - namely dear old dad. I know it all too well. She's a 13 year old in a 20 year old body, who knows nothing about nothing about life, but has put her faith entirely in the P/QF paradigm she's been taught. God is irrelevant and unnecessary.

Randy gets disgustingly creepy again at about 5:40 - completely oblivious to the psychology of a child (a 5 or 6 year old has no idea what "marriage" is - of course they'll answer "daddy", being mommy's "married" to him - it's their only frame of reference at that age).

I think Kevin Moore probably means well, but he's just gulped down the Kool-aid and gotten in over his head, probably like most of the men who take their daughters to incest ba, err, purity balls. His daughter, Rachel, who speaks at around 6:40, is another parrot who has no real idea what she's talking about. For instance, her example of someone who's been through three dating break-ups in a months time, and the emotional turmoil that results from it - I mean, seriously, seriously, just how much emotion could be involved in that kinda rapid fire scenario? It gives you a look at just what a dishonest and inaccurate portrayal of dating (and emotion) that these girls are brainwashed with. Purposeful dishonesty, too, which makes it sickening. Brainwashing works. By Kool-aid D-Day, the people at Jonestown literally believed that the people of America wanted to kill them, including their babies and seniors. Again, brainwashing works. Make whatever you need to be seen as the enemy into something so terrible, so evil, such a threat, through repetition and propaganda, and vulnerable, naive minds will buy what you're selling.

I hate to tell Mr. Moore that the 70s absolutely weren't milder than today. At least not sexually. Good Lord. Please join the rest of us in reality.

His daughter Claire speaks at about 8:35. One of the ways she describes "purity" is to "keep my heart pure before God". SMH. She's talking about emotion, for those who don't see the problem with what she said. How fitting that at 9:00 she totally whiffs on the 10 commandments thing (which the interviewer calls her on), and her sister, who she turns to for help, pulls some propaganda right out of her brainwashed rear-end to rationalize the mistake away. I feel sorry for these girls. It's pathetic.

When Hannah (daughter of Ken Lane) starts speaking at 11:10, wow, the whole thing reminds me soooooooooo much of my ex - at least as she was after she disappeared right before our wedding ceremony, was reindoctrinated for several weeks, and only allowed to speak to me thereafter with a moniter on the line with her (usually her father), quite obviously relying on him for answers to questions she couldn't handle - just like the child she was raised to be. Hannah has been raised to be totally reliant on her father. It's sad. I pity her. She'll become an "adult" having never made a decision of substance, and completely unequipped to do so. If her father ever allows her to marry, her husband will become her new idol. She'll never, ever grow beyond exactly who and what she is right now at 11 years old unless the jar is shattered.  Her words are daddy's words. Period.

At 13:45, Hannah's mother and Ken's wife, Libby, proves that Hannah has to deal with dumbass on both sides of the family. Nothing but P/QF cult-speak. If it's so terrible to "give pieces of your heart away", and Libby's past is so checkered with the abominable sin of pieces of her heart having been given here, there, and yonder, how is she even fit to be a mother? While her mother is telling us all about her past in cult-speak, it's pretty clear that Hannah's heard this little propaganda spiel many times. She could probably recite it better than her mother.

Here's Part 2...

How perfect that this segment begins with Khrystian Wilson singing a song (which I'm guessing she may have written) about a girl whose "heart's beaten up cause her father's not there". That's almost as painfully cheesy as the Leif Garrett episode of "Behind The Music".

Her sister Amanda (who's quite obviously emotionally immature) then speaks about having "no regrets" for following the courtship/purity model in marrying a man she barely knew. It's a good thing. Regrets would probably earn her one free estrangement from her family. I mean, failure is NOT an option in a mind control dynamic.

Jessica speaks again at around 3:00. She still hasn't come to terms with the fact that the quality of her parents, as people, was largely a facade. Religion (particularly P/QF) was and is their heart, as you'll see later in Part 3. As she tells her story, it becomes obvious that her parents made rules and religious culture their focus in parenting (as most P/QF parents do), eschewing the idea of self-control, and unable to impart life skills or information that were anything more than isolationist religious drivel. Her life paid the price. Jessica doesn't understand that her mother in fact never trusted her. Never. If she had, she'd have taught her about life. What her mother most likely holds against her is the stygma that she now thinks she carries - having a sinful, "worldly" daughter. Naturally, no one wants to think the worst of their parents, but P/QF is a hopelessly selfish system that breeds sociopathy. Everything you thought your parents incapable of, P/QF makes them many of you reading this know first hand.

David Diefenderfer strikes me as a man, nearing the end of his life, content to allow a paradigm (which makes promises, albeit empty ones, toward the opposite of all of the things he's lived - therein its appeal) raise his daughters after his death. His daughters are just products of its brainwashing and propaganda, although not quite to the poisonous degree of most of the other young girls in the video.

Part 3...

Early in this segment, we meet Colton Wilson, fittingly wearing a Patrick Henry College sweatshirt (Christian homeschooling movement! Yay!). As he's asked how he feels while watching his sisters prepare for the incest ba, err, purity ball, he starts talking about how "lovely" they are, and the look on his face at 00:32 of the video is more than a little creepy, almost like there's a part of him that could cut glass at the moment (if you know what I mean). It's just all creepy and has a vibe of incest, whether the vibe has a basis or not. This stuff just isn't healthy or normal. It's also disturbing how he allows his mother to define who he is emotionally and sexually. I couldn't help but notice that as he says "That's my plan" in reference to saving his first kiss for his wedding day, he looks in his mother's direction.

At around 2:20, we go back to Jessica's story. We see that the "love" of Jessica's parents only genuinely goes as far as Jessica's willingness to drink the Kool-aid. They aren't just bad parents. They're bad people, driven by their out of control religious addictions. They have NO concern for the well-being, or lives in general, of anyone SHE cares about. All they care about is her doing what they want, and they would willingly and purposefully destroy innocent people to make that happen if they could. They're religious sociopaths. I should know. I've seen the same thing up close and personal. So have a lot of you.

Around 5:00, it gets religiously sickening. The Blessing. One big ole flip of the bird and an eff you to their Eternal High Priest, Jesus Christ. It's disgusting, from the physical positioning (making the children approach him on their knees) to the seeming desire to go back to the old covenant suggested through the action undertaken. Disgusting. And Lisa Wilson's speech at around 8:10, a large part of me feels it would've never happened if not for cameras being there.

Kevin Moore mentions his father having an addiction. His was gambling. Kevin has one, too. Religion.

The arrogance and pride that rolls off of Randy Wilson at around 10:00 is almost physically tangible. He doesn't seem to realize that being "controlling and patriarchal" IS a negative. He then demonstrates his disconnect from reality with his statement about his daughters' freedoms and liberties. Total whackadoodle. "I'm not about controlling. I see it more as 'launching'." SMH. Ok then. Asshat. Lisa Wilson then tries to rationalize away the controlling. It isn't about dignity, standards, or anything of the sort, Lisa. If you'd look past your own propaganda for even 5 seconds, you'd see exactly what it's all about: Taking Dominion. If you don't hold up your end and produce little SuperChristian dominionists, the multi-level marketing scheme which is P/QF crumbles. End of story. Just tell the truth for once.

I don't even want to get into the Purity Covenant, and the way it bows up and takes a crap all over Matthew 5.

I'm not sure I'll even watch the last segment. It's nearly 2AM here, and this has me so stirred up that sleep isn't really in view right now. I watch this and I see blatant emotional incest, and see these idiot patriarse fathers eventually offering prospective grooms the emotional equivalent of what would be, in crude sexual terms, sloppy seconds. If you're emotionally incestuous with your father, how exactly are you "emotionally pure"? The response to that of any healthy man would be "Yuck!" It's as if the only way these girls will ever be "fit" for marriage is to be emotionally unhealthy. This is aside from the perpetual immaturity.

So many bad memories, the dots of which connected easily when watching this. Back when I was in the midst of my deal, I really had NO idea just how big the monster behind my ex's dysfunction actually was. I'd have still loved her and still fought for her, but Lord help me at the futility of it.

To you ladies (and guys, too) who've been in this, gotten out of it, and started toward healthy, productive lives...I can't really put into words just how much I admire and respect you. You're amazing. All of you.

To those of you still in it, please read here


  1. can see this kind of nonsense nudging already deranged people toward unspeakable things...and those with one foot in this purity stuff to take a step into total disconnect from reality.

    It drives me crazy to meet parents whose own past might include lots of dating, sexual relationships, divorce, etc. think that they can remove their kids from real life and plug them into a fairy tale devoid of any real emotion or relationship. Sure, we want our kids to learn from some of our mistakes- but we can't make them, and we can't create a virtual reality for them either.

    Perhaps we can trust that the God who saved us from a lot of garbage can also be there for our kids.

    Anyway, this disgusting stuff has made me sick, but it needs to get out there. There is a WEIRD improper undertone to it and it is gross.

  2. So many thoughts - where to begin ...I guess with the fact of being emotionally immature: I still feel behind most people my age, 26. I remember how concerned I was when I was going to college at 21 and found at my roommate was to be a 17-year-old, only to find out that she was more mature and well-rounded than I. (Incidently, she became my best friend and we roomed together for the rest of college and the year after...)

    Those poor girls - they know nothing of dating and relationships, and I want to slit the throats of their sick fathers for not letting them think for themselves and live their own lives. Dating is actually not the evil institution I grew up believing it was. I actually only dated one guy in college, and that was for over a year, but I guess I'm the exception since these girls who know so much about life claim that most of us have an average of several guys per month...

    It's so ironic that the decision of letting the father choose the husband for his daughters is somehow supposed to make her feel beautiful and special and it actually has the opposite effect. Our stepfather did in fact constantly lecture us about our beauty, but he also lectured us about the evils of men and what went on in within their corrupt minds, and my sister and I suffered from crippling self-loathing of our physical selves and still do this day, though to a lesser degree.

    This subject just brings out the bitterness in me, because in our case the emotional incest turned into physical incest, and it makes me so angry to see these fathers so arrogant as to say that they're all the man their daughters need. I literally want to throw up when I see them dancing and the fathers kissing the daughters. It's so twisted!

  3. I can see from your comments that this struck emotional chords with you guys, too. I slept very little last night, and when I woke up this morning this still had me churning.

    Rebecca...So sorry about what went on in your family. I'm discovering that it happens a LOT in P/QF families. Lord knows I had concerns about my ex's family, and I hear about other instances of abuses regularly. What's sad is that the families usually bury their heads in the sand and demonize the victim.

    If anyone reading this has been the victim of incest or sexual abuse within a P/QF family, what happened to you is a crime, and it makes you in NO way "impure" or a lesser person.

  4. This is by far the best commentary I have read to date on the Purity movement, as videoed through the Cutting Edge: The Virgin Daughters documentary.

    If you are currently entrenched in the movement or coerce your own daughters to do so, watch this free documentary. Re-evaluate your belief system.

    I am but one woman scarred deeply because of being brainwashed to believe this dangerous doctrine. What's your take?

  5. In case you don't have the stomach to watch the final segment, I'll sum it up for you (WARNING: Icky spoilers ahead):

    The incest ball commences, with the Wilson daughters rhapsodizing about their father while Randy looks on smugly and Lisa cries. More than one daughter breaks down during her speech. More bloviating from Randy about a the absolute necessity of God-fearing vagina-penetrating fathers against imaginary secular enemies. Girls and grown women dance in fairy costumes around a cross. Then daddies and daughters lay white roses in front of said cross as part of yet another weird ritual for cameras. More sobby chatter from Lisa about the risks of getting to actually know someone before marrying them.
    Ken throws some of his signature creepiness in one last time as he says that his relationship with his daughter is not incestuous as many believe. Jessica talks about the freedom and growth that she finally got to experience after breaking free from her jar. Khrystian smugly waxes about all the guys who asked her father if they could get to know her and goes on to say that daddy rejected them all before she ever heard of them. The doc ends, with the documentarian telling us that, 2 months after her final conversation with Khrystian, Randy announced her engagement to some military dude.

    Blerrrch. I think I'm going to scrub myself with a scouring pad now.

  6. It just brings back to mind the people I had to deal with - my ex's father and his cohorts. Same arrogant, ignorant attitudes, same total lack of understanding of human emotion and psyche, same ignorance about life in general, same "and you shall be known by your Christianity" vibe, same fear-driven approach to living and interpreting the bible, same buzzwords and cliches.

    Every person my ex interacted with during her reindoctrination period (and most of the people she dealt with on her end during our relationship and engagement) was religiously sick. In saying that, I'm don't mean as in "sicko" (even though it applies in a couple of cases). I mean their religion is ill, unhealthy, and their spiritual lives need extreme repair - as in wiping the slate clean and starting over. If they're a part of my "spiritual family" - my brothers and sisters in Christ - then I want to be emancipated from the family. I don't say that lightly.

    Ever have those moments where you just want to pop someone right in the mouth? I've been having one of those moments for about 24 hours now.

    One of the last things I ever communicated to a member of my ex's family was telling them that I felt like I needed a month-long shower to wash off the stink and stain of everything they introduced into my life. Now I feel like I need another one.

  7. What really strikes me about this is how everything is taken to an extreme. As usual, there is no gray in their world. It is all black and white.

    Dating among high schoolers can be overwrought, over dramatic and problematic. I taught high school for 16 years and saw the pit falls of kids in too serious relationships too soon up close all the time. However...that fact does not mean that all dating is evil. It doesn't mean that parents can't help teens learn boundaries and navigate teen dating in a healthy way. And it certainly doesn't mean that dating has to be overwrought, over dramatic and problematic for young adults.

    Likewise, fathers need to have strong relationships with their daughters. That will certainly help them develop healthy self-images and self-esteem. There is even some indication that healthy relationships with fathers make young women have/pursue healthier romantic relationships. But...that doesn't mean that the relationship with the father should have romantic undertones like these purity balls are intentionally striving to create.

    It is all black and white thinking...if some dating is bad, then all dating is bad. If fathers impact their daughters' future romantic relationships, then fathers must "romance" their daughters....The first is just naive and the second is downright creepy.

    Also, it is just another version of parents trying to protect their kids too much. In some ways these parents are cut from the same cloth as the parents I dealt with as a teacher who wanted their kids to never face consequences for behavior or experience any stress in their lives. If you protect a human being from all stress, pain and trouble, you get a human that is immature, childish and completely unable to function.

    And on a less analytical note...the Wilson brother--the older one--looks smug and creepy in every single shot he appears in in that video. But, I assume, he's been brought up to think himself the heir to his daddy's bizarre little fiefdom. Something about him makes me shudder.

  8. I can't bring myself to watch any of it. Peace and good will to all who have suffered under this system. My heart goes out to you.

  9. You're right, Lewis - my poor sister was treated like a seductress when my mother discovered her husband and daughter in the bathroom. She told me that the two had been having an "affair," as if it were mutual. I know for certain that for years my stepfather had been behaving inappropriately my sister and myself, his two stepdaughters that he had raised. The only difference was I responded negatively to his advances and Melody had the misfortune to be the more submissive daughter.

    My evil stepfather waited to actually have sex until literally the week after my sister turned 18. He stalked her for years even after we found this out, behind my mother's back, turning up at her house during the night. She'd let him in because she couldn't say no, even though she was ashamed and cried while she was with him. How could this have been her fault?

    I really think the Quiverfull lifestyle attracts sociopaths because of the amount of power it promises. I can't think of one sane father in the like-minded families we were allowed to associate with. It's quite unhealthy.

  10. Yes, she's fine now, thank God - as well as she could be. She has a flourishing massage therapy business and a nice boyfriend. The counselor she has been going to for the past year has helped her believe she's not the one responsible for the horrible state of the family like our parents told her.

  11. my soon to be ex husband grew up in this movement but his family made it very difficult for an outsider to detect this unhealthy toxic cult system. so for me i didn't discover they were cult like until my soon to be ex joined a bone-fide online dooms day end times david koreshish cult. his family tried to make themselves seem "normal" but something always seemed very off. it was when the cult interventionist i hired explained to me that his parents have been grooming him since birth. since birth the man has been in a cult and has been hopping from one to another. he tried very hard to recruit me. @ age 20, i was indoctrinated by his family and have had to work very very hard to wash the yuk from my system and it will be an ongoing healing. i've come to believe that the men in his family are narcissistic and sociopathic and desire control over their women. it's a hard road to recover from. i want to help destroy this cult and others.

  12. I was surprised at my reaction to the "blessing" ceremony. I had to force myself to watch it. Not sure why that affected me worse than the rest.

    You are totally right about this kind of mentality keeping young people immature! I totally resemble that. I don't think I'll ever catch up to my real age. But at least I feel like an adult now.

  13. You ladies all have my deep respect. May you heal and grow and thrive away from the abuse. Peace and good will to you all, SS

  14. @Eliza-I think the blessing scene was hard to watch because it seems like they are worshiping him. The kneeling and the way they look at him and all of it. And he acts as though he thinks himself god-like. Add in the "tributes" at the ball and this family has made an idol of the father.

  15. Wow, I'm in a little shock right now. It's always unsettling to have really blatant reminders of the past, and remember exactly who I used to be. I know Colton Wilson, or at least was acquainted with him in my fundamental past. He's a very nice person, but all of these people are probably very nice people. The ideas they hold to aren't. The ideas wound people and stunt emotional and intellectual growth.

  16. It is really ugly when a woman's worth is reduced down to the condition of her hymen.

  17. Interested bystanderDecember 31, 2011 at 9:41 PM

    The part I can never get my head around is the idea that a heart can be divided into pieces that can be "given away" and thus decrease the loving whole. If this were true, then each child one had would take another piece of the parents' and other children's hearts. Thus, large QF families would have the least love for their children. Everywhere you look, this idea of a divided heart is blasted apart: people with foster and adopted children, people who work in orphanages or with large groups of people, etc. Teachers love many of their students and keep on doing so year after year. Hearts were meant for loving and can love as much as necessary.

  18. Nothing annoys me more than the idea that dating makes you give away pieces of your heart that you can't get back. I mean seriously---that's not reality. Before I started dating my now-husband, I had another relationship that lasted two years and was very, very emotionally involved. After that relationship, my feelings for that guy didn't stay with me forever. I didn't feel like I "left a piece of my heart" with him. I have given 100% of my heart to my husband, and old memories/feelings of the past guy don't haunt me. They just don't. I don't know how much more clearly I can say that, yet I know most P/QF people would tell me flat-out that I was wrong.

    And I agree with the commenter who stated that P/QF parents want the courtship model to "save" their children from the type of pain they themselves experienced in romance. When my friend got into courtship in her teens, she told me excitedly that following courtship "eliminated" the possibility of divorce. Is that not the most horrifying scenario? Young girls rushing into marriage expecting it to magically last forever JUST BECAUSE you used courtship BEFORE the marriage? I hate to tell you, but marriages lasting has a lot more to do with how you act after the knot is tied.

  19. Anon 10:55...I couldn't agree more.

    I'd been "in love" twice in my life prior to my ex, and at a minimum, emotionally involved in a few other instances. The "in love" instances happened once as a teen and once in my mid 20s. I regret not a single instance. The teen instance flamed out on its own - with no major damage, and the 20s instance was a bit hurtful, as I discovered things about the person that were more than a little unappealing. The things I learned from that, the growth that resulted from that, was and is invaluable. No one can teach you certain things. You have to learn some things the hard way.

    All of those things combined didn't keep me from giving the entirety of my heart to my ex in the slightest.

    And another thing that kills me - this ridiculous idea that a kiss opens up a sexual Pandora's box is just boneheaded. Sure, it CAN, but not all kisses are sexual in nature. There's this crazy thing that P/QF people don't seem to have heard of. It's called "affection". When that's combined with something else they've seemingly never heard of, self-control, it's a beautiful thing.

    They see everything in extremes - you're either chaste in every possible way, pure in heart, fearfully worshiping the wildly erroneous KJV translation of 1st Thessalonians 5:22, yadda yadda, or you're a sexual horndog ready to paint the world with your sin.

  20. Rebecca - My heart hurts for your sister. I am Jewish but grew up in an extremely abusive patriarchal cult that married me off at 12 (yes, 12 - not legally, of course, but in a "religious marriage") after my being used probably since birth to gratify various men. One of the most painful things for me when I escaped was knowing my sisters would go on being abused in this way. That my father saw them as his lovers more than he saw my mother as a lover, but ultimately they were all just a piece of meat to him. I think that these cults do in fact attract sociopathic individuals. My father, as leader of the cult I grew up in, was clearlyt he most sociopathic at all. Even now, with nine children and a strong faith, I really struggle to unlearn what his behavior and the intense abuse taught me about myself, about men, and about G-d. I pray your sister and all other girls are safe from your step-dad.

  21. I think Randy Wilson is a full-blown psychopath. He's not a normal guy who has been corrupted by twisted philosophies. You can see it in his eyes, and especially in the way he doesn't care when his wife [i]breaks down sobbing.[/i] He wants the power this system grants him. I think these traits have been passed down to at least one of his children, and I think it's Khrystian. She seems so cold.

    Also (I know I'm not the first to have said this), making a lifelong commitment to someone you have only known under tightly controlled circumstances is a million times more dangerous than dating around. Anyone can hide who he (or she!) is for six to eight months of structured, chaperoned "dates." People have married psychopaths. Heck, John Wayne Gacy's wife had not a single clue who he was! And it's double jeopardy, because divorce is worse than death.

    And last, I echo all the sentiments toward the girls who have survived this system and remained normal. I respect you girls. And also the guys. You're incredible people.

  22. I haven't seen this series other than a few brief moments of the first clip.

  23. I had a difficult time viewing part 1. I only got to 7:29. Having girls dancing around a cross and bowing down to it and placing flowers at the bottom, while having their daddies kiss them passionately on the mouth was a bit too much for me.

  24. I broke the jar and I'm pretty proud of it! I still have issues from it, but I'm working through it.

  25. Oh, Dina - my heart breaks for you. I can't believe all you've been through. I can't tell you how happy I am that you left, but oh, it must have been sheer hell to leave your sisters behind. I'm so sorry. You are so incredibly strong. I often wonder if I would have the strength to leave if my family had stayed in the patriarchy movement.

    Dina, I'm more glad than I can say that you have a family you adore now - you deserve to be happy. I was reading up on sociopathy when I realized my stepfather fit the profile of one perfectly and read about how they can be attracted to a lifestyle that gives them power - yet another reason to stay away from patriarchy!

    How are your sisters now, Dina? My stupid stepfather has custody of the three boys since the divorce, and there actually was a good chance that he'd get my 7-year-old sister - right, him, an known pervert. My 24-year-old sister's therapist said that she thinks my stepfather's a sexual predator, that he's been preparing us girls as young as 12 with subtle inappropriate actions to what he did with my sister when she was 18. And, yeah, he gets the kids.

    Thank you for posting, Dina. My heart goes out to you.

  26. Since we are sharing notes on creepiness here, I would like to add that I have heard of (and have witnessed firsthand) a yucky inappropriate interest(by parents) in watching and cheering on the couple's first kiss at marriages that take place in these circles. It seems so incongruous... And sadly, I know of cases where the couple knows little or nothing about sex and who have major problems in this area after marriage! These courtship/purity obsessed parents are like Dr. Frankenstein trying to create perfect offspring. The results can be tragic.

  27. I'm trying to get through part one right now... Can't stomach it. And I'm only at minute 5.

    Ugh. Why. Why.

  28. I, like Hypatia, knew the Wilsons in a past life. I mostly spent time with Colten, but went to the family's house on several occasions for dinner, etc. They were very kind and fun to spend a short amount of time with. I liked Lisa and the kids, but did feel Randy was a little creepy. (I've gotten that vibe from a LOT of QF/P dads. Controlling Pheromones, perhaps?)

    Colten was a friend of mine and we used to chat on the phone occasionally, but of course, once he got married, there was no hope of contact ever again. (Not that I really wanted to that time I had moved beyond a lot of this type of thinking and knew there wasn't much in common anymore) He was kind and funny when I knew him (right before this video was made, actually), not creepy. I think that the pressure to say and do the right things in life and ESPECIALLY on camera was pretty strong, and that's why he looks creepy. He's SUPPOSED to be adoring of his sisters. He's SUPPOSED to be supportive of his family and back up his dad. He's SUPPOSED to take care of his mom. He's SUPPOSED to say he doesn't want to kiss a girl til his wedding day. He does look sort of creepy in this video, but I don't think he's a predator as much as controlled into living at a "higher standard."

    I agree with most of the comments already said, especially about the perpetual childlike state for these girls that you mentioned, Lewis. It's sort of amusing, because even the older, now-married girls dress like and write songs with the maturity of a typical 14 year old. (I would know, I wrote plenty of awfully sentimental songs and wore too much make up when I was 14!) When I'm at my best, I hope that their super-quickly-put-together-marriages-to-military-guys-they-don't-really-know will be kind to them and they'll grow up a little. When I've been triggered by something, I wish something bad would happen to them so they'd understand reality!

    I didn't really connect with any the girls because they seemed too perfect to actually engage with me. I remember them saying it took about 2 hours to get ready for a typical day (the big hair, tons of tacky make up, outfits, etc) and even at the time I remember being like "Whaaaat?? That's a lot of image control for purity and beauty that's supposed to come from your heart!"

    The blessings thing is particularly weird. In theory, parents who verbalize their support, encouragement, and specific admiration of their children are great! Family traditions are great! But the kneeling, the adoring, the adult children (I think they make the sons-in-laws do it too?)...ugh. All of that makes me shudder.

    Also, I totally agree with Anonymous 10:55 that being in love once does not limit your ability to love someone else in the future! Emotional purity is crap. I have so much more emotional baggage from the "emotional purity" culture I was raised in than from any boy I've "given my heart to!" I think these ideas come from the assumption that the source of our love is within us, that we have a finite amount, and that loving is losing. In order to make that work, you HAVE to protect, withhold, and shut down love. I don't want a "pure/unbroken" heart, I want a heart that has learned and made mistakes and is willing to change and has been stretched and molded and amplified! The more I love people, in romance or in friendship, the more love I have to offer. I'm so grateful for every man I've dated, no matter what the outcome. Each experience has been valuable because each person is valuable!

    Thank you for continuing to point how messed up this type of stuff is, Lewis. Your blog has really help me clean up the last dregs of this kind of thinking. What you do IS important, and no matter how much crap you get for it, it's helping a lot of us.

  29. I can't watch the clips because I'm reading this at work and our LAN administrator blocks YouTube. I think I'm glad of that.

    But from the description, I can't help thinking: if you substituted the white cross with a may pole, sounds like you'd have a really good pagan fertility ritual...

  30. "Why not shoot for the fairy tale" indeed! I nominate Rapunzel--the one where the girl is locked in a tower far away from all other influences, except somehow she manages to let down her hair, let a boy in, and get pregnant before the witch catches up with what's going on.

  31. In Part 1, I had to chuckle when the guy at the beginning said it would be really cool to say "I've only kissed but one man in my whole life." I wonder if he regrets all the men he's kissed. ;)

    Elegance and romance??? That's what the Wilson's want for this ball? What sick person wants to have romance with his daughter? That's just gross.

    They must earn a shit-ton of money on this thing every year.

    It always surprises me that the dresses the girls wear are sleeveless and some of them are even strapless.

    And this movement is not too young to see the impact of divorce. My sister was one that parroted every thing these girls say and she's now divorced. I have other friends that stuck to the movement who are now divorced or who have had husbands part of the same movement go and cheat on them.

    Not sure if I can make it through the other 4 parts. It took me this long just to watch the first part!

  32. Just watched the whole thing and plan to blog about it. Too many things that need to be said to post just a comment! Thanks, Lewis, for sharing this.

  33. "what if you dont like the way he kissed" She would have no one to compare him to. That is the whole point you dumb ass. Look. I am a 19 year old brought up in this kind of family. It worked for me. It worked for my parents it worked for my grandparents and their parents. It works for us so mind your own business. I am over here in Kuwait for 10 months and while the other soldiers wives are running around with their exes mind is waiting for me at home waiting for me. Why? Because she waited her whole life for me. I know she will wait 10 months for me. I guess I was just brain washed into thinking that is a good thing. Oh poor us... We have a working marriage... OHH GET SOME!!

    1. Wow... I never thought I'd say this, but... that statement makes Kim Jong Il seem like he was humble... and, newsflash, loads of marriages outside your little movement have worked out very well. So just buzz off like the drone you are.

    2. Wow. I never knew it took this kind of upbringing to make people be faithful spouses. I wonder how my husband and I managed it? Could it be because we are capable of having integrity and commitment before God on our own, as two capable adults, without our parents' control?

    3. Lolz! I grew up in the '70s and kissed plenty of guys before I kissed my husband. Once we started dating, I have never kissed another man. That was 25 years ago. The man can kiss!

      I asked him (MK/PK) once if this was a natural talent or a learned skill on his part. He credits his first girlfriend, whom he met on a mission trip to Brazil with Teen Missions, for teaching him how to kiss. Thank you, Becky! Job well done. Good for you.

      Incidentally, Becky went on to also marry and returned to Brazil as part of a missionary couple. Last I heard, she had also been faithfully married for 20+ years to the same guy. Looks like those premarital kisses don't do any harm after all.

    4. Andy, you're a teenager and already married. That's not exactly a selling point for the purity movement.

      PS- Teen marriages have a very high failure rate, especially amongst the Bible-belt set. Remember that before you hold your kiddie-marriage up as a shining example to behold, especially since many posters here have been successfully married for longer than you've been alive.
      PPS- You will never really know what your (presumably teenage) wife is doing behind your back so kindly STFU.

  34. Andy...Thank you for your military service.

    That said, I don't think the movement would approve of your use of the word "dumbass", and yes, you were brainwashed.

  35. They'll be discussing "Purity Balls" today on the Anderson Cooper show. From the clip I just saw, looks like Randy Wilson will be a guest.

  36. That stuff Randy Wilson is spouting at 4:00 in the first video ("the question in every daughter's heart is 'Am I Beautiful' yadda yadda") that very heavily sounds like John Eldredge stuff. You know him? "Wild at Heart" and the women's version, "Captivating"? (I always thought there was a powerful irony when you look at those two titles together...) Well, dumb question probably.

    But it's just weird to me... I don't think he's very QF, at all. I'd put him in the "Patriarchy Lite" camp with John Piper et al. And yet his stuff just feeds into this crap *so well.* What is it with that? It's like there's this undercurrent. When I look at what I was raised with, especially in my own family, it was complementarian but there was a lot of health and balance, and yet there was this undercurrent through books I read, sermons I heard, things that seemed to come with my (genuinely trusted) parents' "approved" stamp because they were involved with or financially supported by those people--and that undercurrent was poisonous, and *this* is the sea that it flows into. *And I had never heard of Quiverfull until a month or two ago, and yet I recognize it. I recognize everything.* Even those daughters... I had never heard of purity balls but I knew that type of girl. I called them "Daddy's Little Princess" girls and something about it creeped me out. When I compared my relationship with my own father, imperfect as it was (and it was), I was glad to be me. My father never told me I was beautiful. He told me I wrote world-class poetry. (His actual words!) And somehow I grew up valuing my soul & mind over my dress size, gee, wonder how that works.

    Also, this is random, but does it creep anybody else out how often they use the word "heart" in these?

  37. The account associated with the videos got terminated because of the BBC.

  38. I happen to be a member of the Patriarchy movement. I would like people to know that there are several branches of the movement...some of them can be needlessly rigid. We don't always agree amongst ourselves about the issues you brought up. Not every pro-patriarchy person is supportive of the Quiverfull philosophy and vice versa. Personally, I am not involved with QF and have no wish to be. I am a born again Christian female who believes in and supports the basic principles of familial headship described in Ephesians 5. It has nothing to do with worshiping one's father but it does mean that we recognize that God placed father's in charge of the family for a reason. It's a question of responsibility and authority NOT tyranny. I don't "date" but I am in a courtship...and I chose him of my own free will. I know there have been abuses but there isn't a church, group, movement or denomination that is free from "bad apples".

    1. "It has nothing to do with worshiping one's father but it does mean that we recognize that God placed father's in charge of the family for a reason."

      How do you know that because Paul wrote it in a letter to the Ephesians that it's from God?

      "It's a question of responsibility and authority NOT tyranny."

      What were Paul's thoughts on slavery? Do you agree with them? Were they also from God?

      "I know there have been abuses but there isn't a church, group, movement or denomination that is free from "bad apples"."

      The Patriarchal belief system, in and of itself (and all of its offshoots - rigid or not), IS the "bad apple".

    2. "It has nothing to do with worshiping one's father but it does mean that we recognize that God placed father's in charge of the family for a reason."

      >"How do you know that because Paul wrote it in a letter to the Ephesians that it's from God?"

      I believe the Bible is the inerrant Word Of God.

      "It's a question of responsibility and authority NOT tyranny."

      >"What were Paul's thoughts on slavery? Do you agree with them? Were they also from God?"

      I do not approve of the buying and selling of human beings (and neither does God (Exodus 22:16). However, the issue of slavery in Biblical times is a bit more complex for the space I have here, This is a good article on the topic.

      "I know there have been abuses but there isn't a church, group, movement or denomination that is free from "bad apples"."

      >"The Patriarchal belief system, in and of itself (and all of its offshoots - rigid or not), IS the "bad apple"."

      I respectfully disagree. "Patriarchy" is the familial system that is taught in the Bible. You can choose to reject that but that will not change what is written in scripture. Godly patriarchy has to do with lovingly protecting and leading a family. It isn't abusive or tyrannical. I'm sorry you had some bad experiences but REAL patriarchy has been a blessing to many people.

      ~ GOD of ORDER ~
      Human authority has boundaries; human submission has limitations. In the body of Christ we are called to submit to one another, but that means to submit to those in authority over us. We all submit to Christ, Christ does not submit to us. We submit to earthly rulers within the realm of their authority, yet they do not submit to us. The members of the body submit to elders and leaders, the elders do not submit to the members of the body. Wives submit to their husbands, the husbands do not submit to their wives. Children submit to their parents; the parents do not submit to their children. This is how it OUGHT to be, for this is established by God. A reversal of the role of submitting to authority would render authority meaningless and would render submission meaningless. There would then be no authority, leading to disorder, and that is NOT what the scriptures teach. In Christ all things ought to be in order, for our God is a God of order.
      ~ (Heb. 12:8-10, James 4:7, Rom. 13:4-6, 1 Pet. 2:13, 1Cor. 16:15-16, Heb. 13:17, Gen. 3:16, Eph. 5:21-25, 1 Pet. 3:1-6, Eph. 6;1-3, Prov. 28:2, Psalm 8:3, and even 1 Pet. 2:18) ~


    4. I posted that link because you're using buzzword-laden language.

      You're free to believe what you want to believe (but why do you believe the biblical canon inerrant?), just be aware that a defense of patriarchy, whether to me or the majority of readers here, is a waste of time, and words like "godly" aren't a positive to many of us.

  39. Lewis
    I am inviting you to a group I am a co-administrator of on Facebook. It's called "Godly Patriarchy". We aren't inviting you to beat you up or fight with you. We would just like you to have an opportunity to look at the kinds of material we post.

    1. I appreciate it, Fairlight, but I'm not interested.

    2. I read the article on Religious addiction. I practice a few of them but most of them I don't support and haven't personally experienced.

      >"but why do you believe the biblical canon inerrant?"

      Belief in the inerrancy of Scripture is ultimately a matter of faith, as is a belief in God.

    3. I don't know that it's so much a matter of faith as it is a matter of indoctrination and conformity - through which the biblical canon becomes god.

    4. >"I don't know that it's so much a matter of faith as it is a matter of indoctrination and conformity - through which the biblical canon becomes god."

      My personal relationship with God has seen me through many trials in life. My prayers have always been answered but not necessarily in the way I expected (or wanted). Since none of us can place God in a test tube, His existence becomes a matter of faith. As for the Bible, I view it as divinely inspired and inerrant. I do not view it as a "god"; however, I believe it was inspired by Him. As for conformity, I am the only member of my family, thus far, to proclaim a faith in God. I have been exposed to many beliefs and lifestyles and I chose my own path. I know there are some very abusive branches of the patriarchy movement and I am very sorry you encountered one of them. I believe in and support education for women and I am against any physical abuse of women. I simply believe what the Bible teaches and it does teach that the husband is the head of the home and the family (as in underage children). For us, women have equal value to men. We aren't lesser creatures. We simply have different functions and roles. I also don't support "Quiverfull".

    5. To allow gender, rather than ability and gifting, to determine roles is to invite failure. For instance, not every man has "leader", whether the gentle kind or the harsh kind, in his DNA. To force him into such a role is the kind of conformity that breeds dysfunction.

    6. >"To allow gender, rather than ability and gifting, to determine roles is to invite failure."

      A wise husband will take note of the abilities and giftings of his family members and encourage them to excel in them (the Proverbs 31 woman is a good example of that, she is no doormat)....but as for family leadership, God has placed the husband in that role.

      >"For instance, not every man has "leader", whether the gentle kind or the harsh kind, in his DNA. To force him into such a role is the kind of conformity that breeds dysfunction."

      God designed men to specifically be leaders. It's absolutely in their DNA but not always realized in their lives. While women are equally intelligent and capable of leadership, it doesn't tend to be their "raison d'etre". We currently have a very matriarchal society which has bred it's own brand of dysfunction.

  40. "A wise husband will take note of the abilities and giftings of his family members and encourage them to excel in them (the Proverbs 31 woman is a good example of that, she is no doormat)

    Not every man has the capability of wisdom. Not every man has the capability of strength. Not every man has the capability of intelligence, reason, et cetera. This kind of simplistic, either/or, black and white mindset is the foundation of patriarchy, and is symptomatic of religious addiction and unhealthy faith.

    "...but as for family leadership, God has placed the husband in that role."

    Well, Paul did (not God)...and if you're willing to rationalize his views on slavery, perhaps his views on headship should receive equal treatment.

    "God designed men to specifically be leaders. It's absolutely in their DNA but not always realized in their lives."

    Not true at all. My former future father-in-law, for instance...I wouldn't want him to "lead" me to the mailbox. Totally incapable, and nothing can make him a leader - faaaaaar too many inate deficiencies. The only thing in his DNA is ass.

    The result of his role-playing? Trying to force himself to be a leader (because patriarchy requires it of him) has hurt a lot of people and bred dysfunction you could measure in cubic miles. He's a born and bred follower who, as a leader, is a wannabe.

    "We currently have a very matriarchal society which has bred it's own brand of dysfunction."

    Propaganda. Don't fall for it.

    1. >"Not every man has the capability of wisdom."

      The capability is there but not necessarily taken advantage of. Do all men (or women)show wisdom in their lives? Nope! We have been given free will by God and we don't always make the right decisions in life...but the capability to employ wisdom is there.

      >"Well, Paul did (not God)...and if you're willing to rationalize his views on slavery, perhaps his views on headship should receive equal treatment."

      This comes back to whether a person believes the Bible to be divinely inspired and inerrant. I believe it is.

      >"Not true at all. My former future father-in-law, for instance...I wouldn't want him to "lead" me to the mailbox."

      I believe you!
      But his personal failure is his own fault, he chose to do wrong for whatever reason. His definition of "leadership" was sadly lacking. However, his poor example shouldn't be used against other men who show wise leadership. A few bad apples who claim to be patriarchs doesn't (or shouldn't) negate an entire belief system.

      >"Propaganda. Don't fall for it."

      Not propaganda at all! I speak from personal experience. The women in my family ran the show and the men were either wimps or absent. I see it all around me. I grew up longing for a father who I could be proud of.

    2. "The capability is there but not necessarily taken advantage of."

      Perhaps 1 in 10,000 people are capable of doing my job. No amount of want to, desire, or effort will help the other 9,999. We're all born with different gifts, whether intelligence, athleticism, musical inclination, looks, charisma, and yes, leadership. Leadership isn't an exception to the bounds of nature and genetics just because Paul taught it to be such.

      "But his personal failure is his own fault, he chose to do wrong for whatever reason."

      Partially accurate. Yes, he made choices which contributed to his asshood. He also followed a patriarchal belief system which demanded a role of him for which he wasn't equipped - which gave his asshood a stage.

      "The women in my family ran the show and the men were either wimps or absent. I see it all around me. I grew up longing for a father who I could be proud of."

      You'll only be proud of your father if he runs the show? What if you're setting him up for failure?

      For every home dominated by women, there's a home dominated by men - and hopefully an equal amount of homes where couples act as equal partners. The numbers are likely quite even.

    3. >"You'll only be proud of your father if he runs the show? What if you're setting him up for failure?"

      I wanted my father to stand up for his family and provide love, leadership and protection. He didn't....he didn't even come close. He allowed the women in his life to control and manipulate him, with devastating results. I see a lot of this to varying degrees in our society.

    4. intelligence, athleticism, musical inclination, looks, charisma, and yes, leadership.

      it sure is nice to be born with all of these lol

  41. Lewis
    In respect to the slavery question, I responded by giving you an incorrect Bible verse. The correct Bible verse is Exodus 21:16.

  42. Here are the very real, and DEADLY consequences of patriarchy!

    Don't YOU DARE try to tell me that in leaving my abuser and disobeying his ridiculous orders that I am not a believer in God!
    I'm a practising Catholic, and I truly believe that God himself was asking me to leave that marriage. Women like me who leave the marriages are not the cause of "fatherless children", it is our husbands who cause us to flee for our lives!
    And this whole business of commodifying young women and teaching them that none of their personal, academic and spiritual attributes matter against sexual status, obedience and male approval is utterly sick!

    1. @plasticmanc...I don't know if you were addressing me or not. However, please allow me to be clear. If a woman and/or her children are being abused, she has every right to leave. Women have a fundamental right to protect themselves and their children from abuse. No husband or father can justify abusing their family in the name of "patriarchal authority". Any man abusing women and children should be in prison.

  43. I realize I'm commenting waaay late, and maybe someone else has already pointed this out, and it's a pretty trivial detail (or maybe not), but I just have to comment on this.

    Kevin Wilson got the name meanings of every single one of his children wrong. Why?

    Why lie to them about what their names mean? Or why pretend you know when you don't? In retrospect you just have to have children with good, "godly" names that mean "victorious" and "man of honor" and "leader of men"? God forbid anyone find out their names actually mean "laurel" or "little hollow", or "coal-mining settlement".

    What a weird, stupid thing to lie about. What an insecure, narcissistic shell of a man.