Sunday, September 19, 2010

The Home-Based Kool-Aid Business

I wasn't blind. I saw cultic tendencies in my ex's family from the start. In hindsight, I now very clearly see that it went far beyond tendency. They truly were/are a cult. In my opinion, the vast majority of patriocentric/patriarchal/quiverfull families are each independent cults all their own, connected on the larger scale by the core doctrines and resulting aberrant practices promoted by the leaders of the movement - creating one pretty substantial mothership of a cult that breaks down into autonomous family unit cults adhering to the principles of the mothership.

Many of the sites I've linked to in recent articles are pretty clearly cultic. The authors of those sites would probably argue that up and down, but I believe their protests are futile. I don't know of any better way to measure the patriocentric/patriarchal/quiverfull family phenomenon than by the cult warning guidelines of some prominent researchers. I can measure my former future in-laws from first-hand knowledge, and can do a reasonable guesstimate on the movement, and the true-blue families within it, based on available information.

First, we'll use "Ten warning signs of a potentially unsafe group/leader" courtesy of Rick Ross...

1. Absolute authoritarianism without meaningful accountability.
Do I really need to comment on this one? Does this one not apply to the very CORE and FOUNDATION of all things patriarchal and quiverfull?

2. No tolerance for questions or critical inquiry.
This one will get you branded "rebellious".

3. No meaningful financial disclosure regarding budget, expenses such as an independently audited financial statement.
I can't really apply this one fairly, other than to say that my ex's family was pretty strange about their money. However, I don't know that this one applies to the individual families in the movement as a whole. Probably applies to the money grubbers at the top of the food chain, though. 

4. Unreasonable fear about the outside world, such as impending catastrophe, evil conspiracies and persecutions.
Feminism! Individuality! Decaying western society! Government! Public Schools! Television! Hollywood! Rock music! Processed food! Doctors! Lukewarm Christians! Did I mention feminism? This is a movement NURTURED on paranoia with a persecution complex that's the stuff of legend.

5. There is no legitimate reason to leave, former followers are always wrong in leaving, negative or even evil.
Inclusion in a patrio/QF family cult comes with a father's unquestionable authority determining when, how, and with whom you may leave. And then, preferably to, as a son, start your own family cult, or as a daughter, join your new husband's family cult. Anything else is seen as outright rebellion and ultimately evil. Most former QF daughters (and possibly sons, too) lose relationship with their family if they leave on their own terms. My ex would have. They threatened her, repeatedly, with as much. There's no gray area about it.

6. Former members often relate the same stories of abuse and reflect a similar pattern of grievances.
Happens all the time with former P/QFers. It's amazing how eerily similar, almost identical, most of the stories are from family to family.

7. There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
I guess it's a fairly new enough phenomenon that much of the mainstream media hasn't really focused in on those at the forefront of the movement yet. There's some disturbing information popping up here and there, mainly from cult research groups and ex-members, and I'd say the future holds considerably more scrutiny, given families like the Duggars putting P/QF in the spotlight.

8. Followers feel they can never be "good enough".
I'll say. My ex's prayer journal, and that of likely innumerable QDs, read like a novel of self-condemnation, never feeling she'd done enough to merit God's grace or favor. ALL performance-based. Every single thing about the movement is performance-based. My ex always treated her faith by looking at what she could do to be a Christian - instead of focusing on what Christ DID.

9. The group/leader is always right.
Should I laugh or cry?

10. The group/leader is the exclusive means of knowing "truth" or receiving validation, no other process of discovery is really acceptable or credible.
This certainly spoke for my former future in-laws. They might associate with other segments of the Christian community, even attend mainstream churches, but when a bit of pressure was applied, they closed ranks, bunkered down, closed themselves off, and any and everyone who didn't totally go along with the family, P/QF dogma, was considered the enemy and expendable. Protection of the system of authority was absolutely paramount, because anything other than the system was ultimately "of the flesh". I'd say this is true of most P/QF families.

That's 9 out of 10 that fit like a glove, far and away all the evidence I need to recognize my ex's family as the cult it is/was, and to recognize the P/QF movement as the cultic movement it is.

Not enough evidence for you? Try the following list of 10 from the Cult Awareness and Information Library...

1. Their leader/s may claim a special, exclusive ministry, revelation or position of authority given by God.

2. They believe they are the only true church and take a critical stance regarding the Christian church while at the same time praising and exalting their own group, leader/s and work.

3. They use intimidation or psychological manipulation to keep members loyal to their ranks.  

4. Members will be expected to give substantial financial support to the group.

5. There will be great emphasis on loyalty to the group and its teachings. 

6. There will be total control over almost all aspects of the private lives of members.  This control can be direct through communal living, or constant and repetitious teaching on "how to be a true Christian" or "being obedient to leadership".  Members will look to their leaders for guidance in everything they do.

7. Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class — that they are all equal.

8. Any dissent or questioning of the group's teachings is discouraged.  Criticism in any form is seen as rebellion.  There will be an emphasis on authority, unquestioning obedience and submission.  This is vigilantly maintained.

9. Members are required to demonstrate their loyalty to the group in some way.  This could be in the form of "dobbing" on fellow members (including family) under the guise of looking out for their "spiritual welfare". They may be required to deliberately lie (heavenly deception) or give up their lives by refusing some form of medical treatment.

10. Attempts to leave or reveal embarrassing facts about the group may be met with threats.  Some may have taken oaths of loyalty that involve their lives or have signed a "covenant" and feel threatened by this.


Still not enough? Try this list, also from the Cult Awareness and Information Library...

1. Abuse Of Individuality: They adopt a "groupness" mentality.  They are not permitted to think for themselves apart from the group and only accept what they are told.

2. Abuse Of Intimacy: Relationships with friends, relatives, spouses, children, parents etc are broken or seriously hampered.

3. Abuse Of Finances: Pressure to give all you can to the group.  In non-communal groups, members usually live at the lower socio-economic strata, not because of a lower income level, but because they are always giving money to the group for some reason.

4.  "Us Versus Them" Mentality: Isolation from the community in general.  Anyone and everything outside the group is seen as "of the devil" or "unenlightened" etc.  Their enemies now include former friends; the Christian church; governments; education systems; the media — the world in general.  Those who are involved with these in any way see such involvement as a "means to an end".

5. Abuse Of Time And Energy: The group controls and uses almost all the members time and energy in group activities.  They are usually in a constant state of mental and physical exhaustion.

6. Abuse Of Free Will: They must unquestioning submit to the groups teachings and directions and their own free will is broken.  Their "will" actually becomes the groups "will" without their realizing it.  This is done either by coercive methods including low protein diets and lack of sleep, or over a period of time through intimidation.  Both methods make heavy use of "guilt".

Also interesting is a measurement by this criteria, courtesy of the late Margaret Singer.

They wear their own uniforms, featuring as much in the way of denim and frump as possible, they all seem to have the same hobbies, wants, and desires, the men wear their hair short and parted down the side, the women grow hair so long that usually the only way to style it is to affix it in a Glory Bun or a PhD (pentecostal hairdo), they speak their own language, place an extraordinary emphasis and focus on breeding, and live in what amounts to a quietly militant cultural anarchy. This is all in addition to nearly perfectly fitting the lists above. 

None, NONE, of the characteristics listed above applied to my family, so it's not exactly like I'm nitpicking at normative. It's more like shooting fish in a barrel.  

Patriarchal/Quiverfull families are individual cults in the matrix of a larger cult. It's a shame that so many well-meaning people are on a course to waste their lives, and are conned into offering up their children on the altar of a pagan god.

Galations 3:1 Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. 2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. 3 How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort?


  1. I realize fully that this article will rub many the wrong way and ruffle a fair share of feathers. Still, I wholeheartedly believe the issues in it need to be put forward, examined, and addressed. No one benefits from leaving the truth out of the equation.

    To NOT make this comparison would be senseless, and frankly, dishonest on just about every imaginable level.

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a's a cult.

  2. So, so true of QF/P families! This summed up the churches my family involved themselves in, the leaders of those churches, the church my husband grew up in and the authoritarian structure that my father set up for his family. Thank GOD he's no longer like that!

  3. No offense taken at all, Lewis. I'm so glad you're not shy about speaking the truth and letting it all out. I've been calling the "churches" we were involved in "cults" for years, though people don't agree with me most of the time. All the same, I won't sugar coat it for anyone and regardless of their disagreement with me, it is what it is.

  4. Even if someone is reticent, uncertain, or unwilling to acknowledge the cultic nature of their upbringing, resources designed for those who have left aberrant religious groups can be helpful for those struggling to overcome the elements you describe here.

  5. I loved this post. I grew up in a church that was part of the loose association of independent churches following William Branham, and their favorite argument against accusations of being a cult was, "But we're not organized! We're not following a man!" Except that they made his sermons the only true explanation (they resist the word "interpretation") of the Scriptures and claimed that every Christian who did not accept Branham would be given a second-class status in God's kingdom. Oh, and you can't ever leave.

    I may follow your lead and expose the "Message" (Branham's followers) in their cult-tastic ways using the lists you provided, if you don't mind. By the way, my story is the "Daughter of the Patriarchy" series on No Longer Quivering, if you're wondering who the heck I am. ;)

  6. nonprophetmessage...Please do if it'll help.

    I've read quite a bit of your story. I'm sorry you had to go through what you did. You're expressing your experience very beautifully and I'm sure it's helping people. Glad you're out of the Message.

  7. [quote]7. Bible-based cults may proclaim they have no clergy/laity distinction and no paid ministry class — that they are all equal.[/quote]

    This point is missing one thing - there may be a claim of no clergy/laity distinction but you can be certain that in practice there is a clear distinction. That's why it's so important to evaluate groups/leaders on the basis of what they do, not what they say they do.


    Jim K.

  8. is my new blog and my most recent post is about Robert Jay Lifton's 8 Point Model of Thought Reform. a woman, from my DH's cult, who was recently exited, shared some awesome information how their cult leader used this 8 point model on her and the "flock".

  9. I think the only ones that truly would get their feathers ruffled are those still blinded by cults.

    Otherwise, they wouldn't have any issue being open about them.

  10. It seems so clear now..but, I was a child...I didn't know it was a cult...I thought it was family. When I left as an adult, I felt so uncomfortable everywhere but there. Every church, school, college, etc...I never felt like I had family again. I wish there had been a list like this one that not only proved it was a cult, but a list that told me how hard it was going to be to overcome the psychological damage and steps to help me through it...twenty-five years later,I feel as though I still battle it a little everyday.

  11. This is right on, Lewis. It took me years after I married to grow away from most of the mindset, and I remember the shock when I realized--probably 6 or more years after I had left--that my family of origin operated like a mini cult. It was like someone threw cold water on me.

    I was already very familiar with the inner workings of cultic religious organizations, yet it still took many years for me to see my family for what it was because I was just too close to it. Like the poster above said, it felt normal.

    This hasn't yet hit mainstream "cult awareness", probably as you said because it's still fairly new and very loosely organized. However, I believe it's just a matter of time as more and more young adults leave the movement and feel free to share their experiences. You are right, the commonality in stories is shocking.


  12. Thanks again for posting the truth Lewis!

  13. A lot of people have kneejerk reactions to the word "cult," and I don't think human instinct wants to admit living under a cult any more than to admit leading one... but I think you're right on the money here. When a father convinces the rest of his family that he has exclusive authority to tell them what to believe, how to act, how to feel, how to dress, and what to do with every moment of their days while squelching any free thought or communication with others, it's no better than when some self-proclaimed prophet does it in a compound in Waco.

    I was reading Colossians 2 this morning, and the section from verse 6 to the end in my Bible is titled "From the Shadows to the Substance." I found it very relevant to this topic, especially near the end: "So, then, if with Christ you've put all that pretentious and infantile religion behind you, why do you let yourselves be bullied by it? 'Don't touch this! Don't taste that! Don't go near this!' Do you think things that are here today and gone tomorrow are worth that kind of attention? Such things sound impressive if said in a deep enough voice. They even give the illusion of being pious and humble and ascetic. But they're just another way of showing off, making yourselves look important."

    From what I read for myself in the Bible, God never intended us to follow any religious leader blindly, and parents shouldn't be an exception.

  14. Great post, Lewis! Did not "ruffle my feathers" one bit because this is so true! I once was a Quivering Daughter, and I have lived in this cult for much longer than I would ever wish to! You just said it all, they're controlling and if you don't comply, you're a rebel! I am so glad I saw the light! I am so much happier now than I have ever been in those 20 wasted years of my life :)

    ~ J

  15. You know the interesting thing about 'cults' is that cult is the root word of Culture.

    I personally am of the belief that it's not just in Fundiesm that you find strong cults, but that there are more dangerous Cults in actually, what is Mainstream Churchianity, simply because they are not 'as obvious' to the outsider,

    and then, even with the outsider who Does see the cultic influences of mainstream, then I've noticed many do not see the similar/same cult influences in numerous Secular settings, especially when it comes to group think. It's odd too because we emphasize personal freedom and autonomy and individualization yet then we turn right around and Insist on group conformity,

    and in a Pluralist society such as ours that has always heavily relied on the class distinctions/race on 'groups' of people, far more than individual merit [women need not even apply here, this is One area women Still have not been emancipated from due to male centric society, even With the accomplishments women number one are judged on sexuality, their interchange/to man, male society, etc], but anyhoo,

    I think what Is interesting is how the more Corporatist and Cultic 'Consumerist' we become due to marketing, the more Cult like thinking has become, and Not only in religion, but everywhere, and with the religious fundies it tends to be far more Reactionary which Draws people I think Into these cults and/or cult like beliefs,

    THEY think they are anti-conformist when truly they are even More conformist, and the truth of the matter is, the More an individual is Internally locus driven rather than External,

    even in the majority of secular circles, the more that individual will be demonized and deemed as yes, a Rebel.

    We've always Had this, don't get me wrong, but in our technical web group think mind world today, this seems to be increasing in mega bytes, and what I am seeing is how so much of this is increasing among Christians, talking mainstream here--

    it's almost twilight zone surreal you know, maybe it's Just me...but I'm seeing it, a lot.



  16. "I think what Is interesting is how the more Corporatist and Cultic 'Consumerist' we become due to marketing, the more Cult like thinking has become, and Not only in religion, but everywhere, and with the religious fundies it tends to be far more Reactionary which Draws people I think Into these cults and/or cult like beliefs,"

    you know, a good Example of this in Secular is the reactionary with good intent Self Sustainable/Environ movement, of which I am a part of, but even here, there are Strong and I do mean Strong 'cult' like groups and/or elements,

    like Use to be, it was an Individual thing to buy green and defy consumerist society, then like now it's so yuppified and marketed that to Not buy green [which oddly now green in market today one has to really watch for because much of it is corporate lying crock but anyhoo] but to Not be like in the whole green anti-children anti-religion thinking is to be like a dinosaur or lumped into the 'fundie' group,

    in other words you see the Same kind of demonizations, the same kind of guillotine lynch mobs with the 'let's get em or exile you go' if one dares defies and chooses to be eccentric and worst,

    oh my gosh

    Individual, outside the box. Like today's liberals I think are far more yesterday's fascists, and I'm liberal, LOL,

    so yea I mean, I guess what I'm trying to Say here that on some metaphysical realm it seems to me that there's Something in de water if ya know what I mean and that one of the biggest reasons we are seeing such a Huge pull to 'cult like thinking' is not just due to these fundie cults,

    but there' something far more sinister going on know when I read the out of box thinkers who claim that there are aliens and so forth, I can't just dismiss them because in a really Strange way, it really Is like we, humans, are controlled by these outside puppet strings, which of course WE know is spiritual warfare but when you really think about it,

    it truly Is like one is stepping into some weird X Files universe--I mean you Know, like twenty years ago, so much of what is spewed in pulpits today, back Then, people including fundies would have been SHOCKED, same with numerous liberals too...

    and on that angle, it's really just creepy and strange.

    Love, Jane

  17. This post made me laugh. sry to laugh at something so not funny, but it is just so typical. :-) Thanks so much for keeping on writing!


  18. I skimmed through your blog. And I have two questions:

    Are you familiar with the story found in John 8.1-11? Do you think it is applicable, here?

  19. Tragedy101...I'm very familiar with it. I'm not entirely sure the application you have in mind regarding it, so if you can elaborate just a little more I'll be glad to answer.

  20. I will try to elaborate:

    Galatians 5.19-6.10

    I don't percieve much gentleness. Perhaps, I am mistaken, but it appears your grief does not readily conform with gentleness.

    Your blog appears much more like Pharisees stoning adulterers, to me, than the Master's, "Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more."

  21. Tragedy101..."Neither do I condemn you. Go and sin no more" was preceeded by "He among you without sin may cast the first stone". I think you're missing a large point of the entire passage. The way you're appropriating it, people would be encouraged, unabatedly, to continue in abusive behaviors and apostate gospels because people like me lack gentleness, by your perception, in pointing out the abuses. Perhaps you should do more than skim the material here to see the depth of the issue.

    If you begin to lose the distinction between calling a spade a spade, which Christ didn't chasten the Pharisees for doing, and desiring to punish the spade for being a spade (when you're a spade yourself as the Pharisees were), the passage loses all meaning.

    My purpose with this blog is to call attention, and LOUDLY so, to the apostasy and wrongs within the patriarchy/quiverfull movement. If my purpose were to delve into feeling qualified to execute punishment upon them for being patriarchal and quiverfull, that's when John 8 would apply.

    Does my blog look, in any way, like Matthew 23 to you? Was Christ gentle in that chapter, or did he verbally rip the Pharisees several new ones? He wasn't executing sentence (even though He was qualified)...He was calling spades spades.

    Gentleness is context. I don't think you're applying any context. Please don't mistake the grace of Christ for a free pass to continue in aberrant lifestyle.

    And if you have an agenda here, I'd appreciate it if you'd be open and honest about it and not choose the route of passive/aggressiveness.

  22. Do you view my expressions of uncertainty as "closed and dishonest"?

    It was intended to say what it says. I don't know, for certain, what bothers me about your blog.

  23. Tragedy101...What struck me as closed and dishonest was your application of the cited scripture and the ad hominem circumstantial tact you chose to comment.

    If my blog troubles you, you aren't being forced to read it. I don't anticipate it's tone, text, or purpose changing anytime soon.

    If you speak from uncertainty, perhaps it would be better to refrain from speaking. No need to introduce confusion where it doesn't exist.

  24. And just to add, if you have issues with the blog, feel free to use the "contact me" link at the top to communicate with me. If you weren't gonna take issue with and discuss the material presented here, but rather with me personally, it's what you should've done in the first place.

  25. Hi Lewis-

    I have recently found your blog as I am researching the Quiverfull movement. I am sorry about your loss.

    I too had a romantic loss, which is only a microcosm of yours, from the Bill Gothard teachings. I was recently (1980s) going to a youth group at a local church. The first months of attendance were wonderful! The son of the youth group director and I discovered we had a rather strong mutual attraction. I could not believe my good fortune! I had a great Christian friend, who brought me to this youth group where EVERYONE loved the Lord, and now there was this really great guy who also loved the Lord and was from a really great family (I have since changed my views on that) who was interested in me!!!! I hit the jack pot! Hope was restored! There WAS a reason to live after all!! (Another story.)

    And then the honeymoon ended.

    Here is what happened. We were both 15 years old. We began to act on our attraction at a youth event by sitting close to each other and holding hands on a hay ride (I cannot begin to tell you how happy I was at that moment.) The youth director (the boy's father) did not like this and at the end of the night the boy was told he could not date until he was 16. I could not figure out why this information was not disclosed to him until it involved someone else who might be hurt by this. It was bad enough that he hurt his son this way, but now to add me into it? He didn't have the right to do that.

    But we decided it would be OK since he was going to be 16 in about 6 months so we could just develop our friendship until then. So for a couple of months we communicated by phone during the week (toll call. He had to walk down to the convenience store and use their pay phone. Another thing I don't understand.) and enjoyed each others' presence as friends at youth group. We would write romantic notes for each other in school to be read during the week and exchange them at youth group. It was all very cute!

    Until one day he called me and dropped an atomic bomb into my life. In late January, in the bitter cold of mid winter, he had to trudge down to the convenience store phone and tell me he was now not allowed to date until he was 18 and he was not allowed to speak to ME anymore at all. No explanation. Just the bomb. He was no happier than I was. I remember at the end of his bomb dropping he kept saying how wonderful parents were, etc. He was in a lot of pain and was trying not to be bitter against his father.


  26. Along with this personal atomic bomb went the segregation of the youth Sunday school class into boys on one side, girls on the other. Additionally, a mandate was imposed on the youth to sit with their families during worship service, and not sit together with their friends. None of us kids liked this nor did we understand it because we all liked to sit together during the service and we were never disruptive or anything. We kids didn't get to see each other but one other time during the week on Fridays for youth group so we really enjoyed sitting together for the services. But this was particularly hard on me because I did not have any family to sit with as my family did not attend church. Do you think I was feeling maybe a little bit ostracized??!! I could not help but wonder what I had done to cause all this horror and upset nor why whatever I had done was not brought to me directly or why they just did not ask me to leave the church outright. But that is because it wasn't really about me. Not centrally anyway. It was the impersonal imposition of Gothard's horrible legal system into the youth group that happened to have very destructive personal consequences for me.

    I knew nothing about any of this Gothardism, being VERY young in the faith. All I knew was it hurt really bad and I didn't see what I had done to deserve it or, more broadly, what purpose it could possibly serve.

    The fall out was that this poor boy, who had nothing really that he could do with his strong feelings that were suddenly severed from their object by parental fiat (not to be complained against, but only accepted and approved) was to direct them somewhere else, where he knew they would not be requited. He dutifully ignored my existence and, in front of me, showered his attention and feelings that were really for me onto another girl who would not give him the time of day. (This was not discouraged by Daddy Gothardite, BTW.)

    I continued to attend this youth group and you may wonder why. There were some caring people there and I did need a place to go fellowship with other Christians. The kids were great and in spite of the Gothard nightmare we could have all had a great time together. In fact, everybody else did and I would have too if only I was not in a state of perpetual emotional agony. I was too young to drive so I couldn't explore any other churches that might be around, not that I knew of any, anyway. And, worst of all, the Lord did provide this church as an answer to prayer. (That is a long story, but I believe He did this solely because the only other serious Christian I could find at my school was from this church, and because these policies were not in place when I started attending. I have always been amazed at how quickly Satan works to turn a God given gift into a hellish nightmare if only he has something to work with.) I also didn't know I was being abused. Because, really I wasn't. No one had the least thought that there was anything wrong with any of this at all. I thought it was just my dumb, rotten luck, not the evil fruit of Biblical heresy. So I stayed.

    Last I heard from someone in a position to know such things is that this boy is now a shell of a man and still under daddy's thumb.

    I could say more about this family and some other things that happened to other people I know who went to Gothard's IBYC, as it was called back then. None of it is good.

    Thanks for your blog. I'm glad you and others are exposing this horrible movement. Anything associated with Bill Gothard will only leave pain wracked, ruined lives in its wake.


  27. But Is it just Bill Gothard, or is it something far more that goes Way deeper, to the Root, the whole dang foundation,

    how many of us Dare ask?

    when I read or hear or live with so much lies and hate from others who claim Jesus or from my OWN SELF,

    or from my own family, entire life...sometimes I feel like this

    but you see I don't have that 'family' photo to call out to me, I have a small son that still needs me, husband is an abusive ass, daughters well one is horrible [drugs] and the other well, she is barely hanging on like me...

    but We hang on, somehow, I hang on, I rise above, I create love inside myself,


    Because I don't and haven't seen it nor Truth, naked Truth from many who claim Jesus, like the patriarchs and fundies and yea mainstream, all of it, most days I think it's all a load of crock

    I ask Jesus, are you the same, just some ego maniac that thrives on the whole fear and hell to Force us to obey, worship, etc.? I battle the demons...but I decide,

    well What IF God is really Like that? Not that I can Do anything about it--all I can do, is inside myself is CHOOSE LOVE, TO CHOOSE TO LOVE A GOD THAT IS NOT A PATRIARCHAL ABUSIVE ASS

    even if He don't exist...

    I'll nail myself before it gets me...

    and why I may not have that perfect photo, or anyone who Calls out to me,

    what I do have, is the occasional Voice, of another like me, one who is trying to sort through the shit in this world, yea I said shit, Truth, Fine Again, DEAL WITH IT,

    ones like Me, who see all the hate and lies and struggle with their own demons, who Want to Believe, in Love, in a God of Love, who write Blogs like This one,

    the Lewis's out there and the Hilary's and the Mara's and the rest...who Like me,

    are also nailing themselves down to RISE ABOVE ALL THE


    keep blogging Lewis, keep talking,

    because Your call, like many others in blog land, may yea piss off the thought control abusive jerks,




    don't let em get you down, we All have those confessions, and we All need to hear,

    someone Calling to us.

    Maybe That is who God really is after all,



  28. RiH...I'm very sorry you had to experience that kind of nonsense. I'm sorry for the guy, too.

    Gothard (and others like him) has left a wiiiiiiide field of debris in his wake.

    I appreciate you sharing this here.

  29. ". There are records, books, news articles, or television programs that document the abuses of the group/leader.
    I guess it's a fairly new enough phenomenon that much of the mainstream media hasn't really focused in on those at the forefront of the movement yet. There's some disturbing information popping up here and there, mainly from cult research groups and ex-members, and I'd say the future holds considerably more scrutiny, given families like the Duggars putting P/QF in the spotlight."
    Don Venoit has written a book on Bill Gothard and now there is Kathryn Joyce's book on Quiverfull. Still, this is an EXCELLENT post!!