Sunday, September 12, 2010

The Many Dysfunctional Faces of Domestic Discipline

In the weeks ahead, I'll be writing about the controversial and disturbing issue of Domestic Discipline.

Since my post a few weeks back which included a link to a site about DD, I've had quite an education. First of all, I'd never heard of it referred to as Domestic Discipline, but only as "spanking" or S&M. From what I've been able to gather, DD breaks down into three distinct groups...

First, those who engage in it sexually. In the vast majority of these cases there's mutual consent. While leather, whips, bondage, pain, and such aren't things I'd ever expect to turn my sexual engine, if two consenting adults want to bring it into their marriage, that's their business. I'd hate to think I'd have to play "spanky, spanky" to have a healthy sex life with my spouse, but hey, that's just me. To each his own.

Then, there are those who don't engage in DD for sexual reasons, and at the same time, it has no religious aspect for them. Maybe we can call this "Secular DD" for the sake of this discussion. Usually, although probably at a lesser frequency than sexual DD, there's mutual consent. I've no doubt, however, that some men use it in an abusive manner to control their wives/girlfriends. Also, any woman who would submit to spankings, beltings, and whippings, what have you, and do so with no ties to sexuality or religion, but just to be "disciplined" or "corrected" - well, that woman has emotional deficiencies that no belt, paddle, or bare hand will ever correct. It's an emotional sickness, and in my estimation, with no condescending motive, these women need professional help.

Finally, there's religious, or "Christian", DD. Often, this form of DD is in no way genuinely consensual, but rather the "consent" comes in the form of fearing another beating or punishment. Much of the religious form of DD traces back to Mormonism and other fringe, isolationist, and aberrant groups, with an emphasis on the prominence of the position of men in authority over women, grossly misusing and misappropriating scriptures such as those found in Ephesians 5.

I want to dive into this issue for a couple of reasons...1) to possibly help or encourage women trapped in DD environments while educating others that something so spiritually perverse is out there, and 2) to demonstrate just how much of a kissing cousin DD is to the poisonous, authority-based, apostate doctrines associated with the patriarchal and dominionist movements I normally write about. Frankly, it's become somewhat personal to me.

If any DD practitioners or supporters, particularly those of the religious persuasion, want to come here and argue the consent issue with me, consider yourselves preemptively shut down. I'm not speaking from my own perspective about the issue of consent in DD, but simply relaying the message straight from the mouths of the women I've dealt with in the previous weeks. 

NO woman deserves or merits being beaten or punished into compliance by any man. It's particularly disturbing that some fringe sectors of the church community actually endorse as much, and attach this disgusting practice in any fashion to the name of Christ - when Christ has already taken the punishment due to ALL of us, male or female.

Stay tuned.


  1. And then there's the group of men who desire bondage by women. To be whipped, chained, bound, clad in latex, and have no sexual contact with the dominatrix. Ordinary guys who need the discipline provided by women.
    I don't get the thrill there either. But i agree, if it's done in anger or with the notion of abuse, it's wrong.

    1. Headless Unicorn GuyJune 25, 2013 at 9:06 AM

      "Beat me, whip me, make me write bad checks..."
      -- saying going around local fandoms in the Eighties

      What can I say except echo the draconequus with the bullhorn:

  2. amulbunny...Very true. An oversight on my part, as you can substitute man for woman in secular DD, and despite having all the trappings of a sexual fetish, there's nothing sexual about it. Emotional deficiency.

  3. Glad to see that someone's going all out by addressing this. I recall getting into an argument with a (married) man who seemed very intent on believing that Ephesians 5:22-24 gave husbands authority to beat their wives. He never did tell me how that interpretation was consistent with Colossians 3:19! :P

    At any rate, I think most Christians would prefer to pretend this didn't exist. The only ones that I'm aware of who've met the issue head on were Paul and Lori Byerly. If the grapevine is true, even this relatively tame post barely squeezed through the censors because the writer dared to use the term!

    No one likes talking about domestic violence, rape, etc., so those topics get swept under the rug. But Christians NEED to be addressing these issues no matter how unpleasant.

  4. Note to self: Links placed within the text don't show up. Sorry, everyone!

  5. Thanks for being willing to address this, Lewis! I had never heard of DD before your previous post with the link. This is definitely NOT something that comes from Christ! It is the opposite of grace, and I agree that those who "want" it have major emotional issues.

  6. THANK YOU for addressing this! I'm looking forward to hearing your thoughts and studies on this.

  7. I'm also looking forward to this.

    I, like you, was drawn into this fight because of the abuses I saw going on 'in the name of God' in the church.

    Mine was more general, seeing Bruce Ware saying stupid things implying that women were abused because they didn't submit enough and Paige Patterson gleefully talking about sending an abused woman back home to her abusive husband with advice that blackened both her eyes.

    It's sick the different abusive teachings being pushed as gospel.
    It's no gospel at all. It's not good news at all but the exact opposite.

    I was getting sick of the male-favoring, stinks-to-be-you-if-you're-female, guess-you're-SOL-sister gospel being pushed, making Jesus look like a misogynic jerk, whan He isn't anything like that at all. He's the One who wants to heal.

    So again, like the others, I'm glad you are going after this branch of heresy. It needs to be taken on, head on, with no punches pulled.
    The disgusting cancer needs to be exposed for what it is -- spirit rot.

  8. Another important consideration: Can spanking children as practiced by most Christians and emphasized as the only way to Biblically discipline be linked to spanking fetishes and other such deviant sexual behaviors? There is a considerable amount of science that does suggest the possibility.

    There are links and they warrant a closer look....

    Cindy @ Baptist Taliban Memoirs

  9. ~~sigh~~ Should I say anything Jesus, hmmmm.,

    ok, Let me talk from one who has Been there, the whole bdsm/sadomasochism type of personality due to RA and years of abuse/lured to groups/ideologies including Mensianity [christianity by men for men] that goes All the way back to my family in Catholic types of secret societies/crime and pagan mixed with religion/Christianity to Fundamentalism to fascism/communism,

    and what Jesus did to set me free. And why this is relevant, because it hopefully will Reveal the ROOT, of this very poisonous doctrine, WARPED doctrine that has taken over the church,

    which really, Hasn't taken OVER the church, it's Always been there, since the days of Paul and it's what I call the Death Worship Cult.

    How Jesus set me free, was the awakening it started with a Song--Crawling, Linkin Park.

    I was at a time where I was just about to toss Jesus out the window of my life, I had already tossed the church, and I was going through weeks of wrestling with Jesus and the trying to live in abuse as Jesus as my Pimp, because that is what it was, seriously, Jesus was like my pimp--all the 'doctrines' and though I was afraid to come to grips with this, one day I just saw this vision, Jesus standing there, big hat and fur coat and rings, my pimp, with the scriptures, Submit, never say no, serve, etc., be the good whore, etc., because you see THAT was my life,

    I lived on the streets a couple of times so for me to merge That reality with the submissive wife/to abuse reality and the rape and the molestations, abuse,

    every time I would hear or read Christians it really was like Jesus there, as my pimp...even reading the Bible, that was how messed up MY mind was.

    So it began with that song and then I got so angry one day and you know that scripture the patriarch pedophiles [yea I call them pedos cuzz that is what they are--they want CHILD brides] but anyway, the one where they say, Jesus became obedient unto death, to women All the time, submit to beatings, rape, abuse, etc.,

    and the ones about Paul....cont

  10. con't, well anyway, so I was reading about Paul and all the abuses He went through, OK, and I remember telling Jesus because I was just So fed up with the submitting/for me especially this went really deep into my psyche and then the desolation/wanting to commit suicide [and I nearly did a couple of times] Because of the submission, and I yelled at Jesus, 'you got this whole death worship thing going why don't I just be a suicide bomber hooker for you too' and then

    Boom, the light goes off, I see Jesus on the Cross, and He looks at me and says, THIS is what it Took to reach You where YOU are because YOU could never see love without This torture, because this is HOW WARPED HUMANS ARE.

    and like, WOW, you know, like the veil ripped off my eyes and then I like Got it, why it Took the torture and the death, it wasn't for Him, it was for US because that is what WE HUMANS REQUIRED, DEMANDED, our concept of love is so gone, so disconnected, so dead,

    that it took a very bdsm sacrifice for US to see God's love and see LOVE, GOD and many may not get what I am saying here, but for ME personally, it was the DAY I was truly Born Again because I saw the Atonement, the Redemption, and so like,

    in this vision I go to the Cross, meet Jesus eye to eye and like I just saw HE came down to the abyss, to MY level, to MY sinfulness, My darkness, and not only Came down to my level but Took it on Himself, shame and all.

    Now this lasted for a couple of weeks and I was just really seeing His love, but I was still in this very desolate state from the years of sadomasochism, and so like--then one day, Jesus again took me to that place, spiritual and He said,

    OK, now you're here, you get it, OK so Now you and I are going to Walk out of this, and be Resurrected because you're not Supposed to Stay in this 'death' place,

    and that was really hard for me because for me, the whole submit to death was so strong in me, the whole sacrificial love thing...because That is all I ever knew, self abnegate, self hate, allowing others to abuse me, degrade me, silence me, etc., starting from my own parents, you to Walk OUT of that grave, was like pulling off skin because you see that death can become comfortable, it's slavery, it becomes comfortable Because,

    to walk OUT of that, into LIFE, means pain, it means risk, it means FEELING, and it's not easy,

    and so I went through months of a lot of inner healing and going into these abyss's with Jesus to get Free from all the doctrine lies and how the dark forces using dark sentences have Taken scriptures, out of context and used them now in a very Occultist way--that is destructive and desolation and they Do this by taking a Half of a meaning,

    and building a pyramid on that Half while leaving out the Other half. This was done in Religion,

    so my point is, the Root is the focus on the 'death/torture' of Jesus and leaving out the


    This is where you get the whole death worship cult, especially where Women are concerned because women = womb = LIFE.

    the occult Hates LIFE, this is why in Ritual Abuse the lust for sex is always without LIFE, any LIFE born is taken and destroyed, the sacrifice to death and Only for death...

    it's like taking a part of the whole and using that part to destroy the Whole. Does that make sense what I'm trying to relay here?

  11. anyway, ok [last part of reply] so Jesus and I have like this music exchange thing going, you know how we pray/share, etc., and so one of the things Jesus did for me was helped me to take my SELF back from all this death cult worship garbage that wasn't honoring Him nor giving Life, Paul yes suffered, he suffered to BIRTH LIFE to others, Philemon, HE birthed life to that one man, who was to take care of the church--Onesimus, read the whole book, but anyway...the song by Garbage, I use to sing that to Jesus, "I think I'm Paranoid", it was this love thing I had and lol, yea I still do but now you see, if my sacrifice [living not dying] doesn't bring LIFE to others,

    then it ain't from Jesus nor God...and that is what HE showed me, HE came to give LIFE and give LIFE MORE 'ABUNDANTLY' meaning it's Eternal, always Living, we don't die we just transform [new creation, Ephesians, Galatians], we die to 'self' to all that,

    but not LIFE. The whole DD and all that other warped porn lie garbage is nothing more than a clever Occult lie from the enemy, taking a half of the meaning of the crucifixion of Jesus/suffering of Paul teachings and warping them to actually,

    produce Death, especially Death to the womb [woman] and to the gospel. Any 'suffering' in God should Always bring about FRUIT and LIFE,

    IF it leaves desolation, the desert that is barren, it's not of God. God yes can bring one into desolation due to rebellion and sin--but when God takes us through the desolation, the dying to flesh, when HE does it, HE always does it to where HE also brings us back to LIFE, Ezekiel, the dead bones in the valley,

    hard for me to put this into words what Jesus showed me and how He delivered me from the doctrinal lies, and now I don't submit to abuse, nor am I controlled by those guilt lies and all those other Occultist forces and they ARE occultist, make no mistake about it. There is a Huge difference in laying down power, for Love, not losing power but laying it down,

    and then just being some man's kinky doormat. Huge difference,

    closing with this, God did NOT give us a Spirit of FEAR, but of POWER, LOVE AND A 'SOUND MIND',


    In my strong opinion, the whole DD and gender role cult teachings being pushed in today's Apostate church, is really, just a clever ruse, it wreaks of Crowley, Satanism, Illuminati and the whole secret cult society, look up Crowley, Satanism, in the 60s, the Baphomet cults, and you see it-- that is the Root of the DD, and that what 'appears' as just Christian Discipline, will turn into a far worse BDSM/child sacrifice,

    guaranteed. it is the worship of Molech/Marduk, etc--that is TRUTH. the whole Nephites, Nephalim...where many of these DD practices come from--it's all related/connected, going All the way back to Old Testament times and the occults & sorcery then.


  12. Wow. Jane, you're long posts are worth the read. So deep on how Christ resurrected you from the grave of desolation and darkness plus educational about the darker side of the occultic/sadistic practices we aren't privy too. I'm not sure that all persons involved in these occultic practices (of some I'm well aware of in my area) truly know the paganistic/occultic foundations of them. But we need to be aware because our enemy prowls 'round seeking whom he may devour and we need to keep exposing the lies and exposing the Light of Christ. And I do feel His LIght imparting that darkness when you write.

  13. Jane...There are definitely a lot of layers to this onion that most people don't realize.

  14. Jane, thank you for that beautiful story. And for sharing your revelation about sacrifice leading to life. I wholeheartedly agree, and this is a very good answer to those who would say Christianity must be wrong because its emphasis on sacrifice is inherently abusive.

    One thing sacrifice was NEVER meant to be about in a Christian relationship, is one party doing all the sacrificing while the other does all the taking. "Let someone treat you as badly as they want, because it will increase your Christian character" is the same as saying to the abuser, "go ahead and sin that grace may abound"-- about which Paul retorted, "May it never be!" Self-sacrifice was never meant to be about enabling another's sin. It is supposed to be about love-- and love does NOT rejoice in unrighteousness. The loving thing to do when someone is sinning against you is to confront them, or if that would be dangerous-- to flee.

    Patriarchalism and DD are both about a man setting himself up as a god to a woman. She is accountable to him, but he has no accountability to her. She is to give herself TO his power, not FOR his good. It's idolatry of the worst kind.

    The thing about DD is that it takes patriarchalism to its most logical conclusion. Authority always comes with a means to enforce that authority. Bosses can fire employees, teachers can suspend students, church elders can excommunicate members. But the Bible says nothing whatsoever about men being allowed any means of enforcing their supposed authority over their wives. Rather than concluding that this probably means no actual authority is being conferred by the Bible to husbands, patriarchalists look for some means of enforcing husbandly authority. Most of them resort to calling in the church if the wife will not submit (though this is actually invoking church authority and has nothing to do with husband authority). But DD takes it one step further and gives husband's themselves the power to enforce their authority. This is logical-- but what it definitely is not, is Scriptural.

  15. Thank you for all your encouragement and support, it does help me a lot because actually, this has not been an easy journey for me, the RA [ritual abuse meaning RA as the 'god RA' btw, one of those things God revealed to me when He was delivering me] but see for me, it was the Opposite,

    I rebelled against fundamentalist teachings Because of my mother's abuse [which see That goes back into some serious RA tied into secret societies Plus government, six years of the abuse happened in Washington D.C. where I was born, my father's side works all in government--all I'll say on that, also military but like I had memories but only in fragments, WHEN God began to reveal things to me and when I began to find out truth, for long time I was just freaked out, it was something out of X Files seriously and for ME, ok, someone that was all into logic and that had Walked away from religion-Christianity Due to the way too similarities of indifference and abuse that I grew up with--it was just Way too much for me to take, a year of hell and sometimes it's Still very hard, because So many just Don't believe and well, even Christians just don't believe in the supernatural and the ties of the occult with government and family iniquity lines and all that--and for long time I didn't either, I thought it was all hocus pocus, until I came to Jesus [seriously] and HE started showing me...and I still struggle with a LOT of rage/anger when things are revealed because my entire LIFE was controlled by these forces, men I met, jobs I had, all of it,

    so like, sometimes can be hard But what I didn't really think Would come out of it, was just how much I began to see, which was Shocking actually at first because I had walked away from religion, was just how much of the occult was actually happening INSIDE the churches--THAT is what Really blew me away,

    well not really because I knew already about the gov/political corruption due to my years in political activism but like, I just didn't see the spiritual connections there---but now, here's what is also dangerous,

    see why I share this, because I wasn't raised in that spiritually abusive like where it's done with scriptures, pastors, church communities like many of you readers here were--no, for me it was from Internal from the abuse/environment and THEN when I got into Bible/churchianity then I was lured to those types of groups, but NOT only that, how I read the Bible, was Highly influenced by a lens that was very dark/very authoritarian,

    and so like when pieces began to 'fit' ok, like a Puzzle, then I started seeing how this HAD to be something External, a force--at first I thought, ah, culture,

    but no, this is far more than just culture, when you posted [Lewis] the DD here Then I knew, like clear as day, and I said to Jesus, OK now This is Satanism working here--no doubt, that is a spiritual darkness that has to do a lot with the mixing of spiritual with political for POWER, I'm talking political power and big money power...

    and it goes a lot into the whole Aryan cult the occult Hitler was into, the creationalist/dominion movements are All connected to those beliefs and well IF you have any knowledge of that history and spiritual there, going back to Sumeria/Egypt, the beliefs and so forth, well then you probably know what I am talking about. But see many people do not, they have been dependent and 'trusting' of churches/pastors and all that for so long they wouldn't Think to question...

    and that is why many are saying today, you know something is 'off' about this stuff,

    well Yea, you bet, really off. And it goes much deeper and actually wider than just a few bad apples in the fundie circles,

    con't...[I'll get into WHY all this is relevant, sorry I tend to sometimes talk in circles/or tangents]

  16. Ok well having trouble explaining or getting into this, maybe triggers, but anyway, Why is it relevant [maybe I'm just tired, lol],

    well ok, the dangers of the whole DD is not just the authority, the teachings, but it's the 'blood letting' that results,

    and That is what is tied into something far more sinister, occultist, and this is where you get into a lot of end time teaching,

    that I was going to get into here but well, it's just so hard to explain in a short summary--but leaven of Herod and leaven of Pharisee,

    let me put it this way, they are of the SAME COIN, they are not two distinct different things, but the SAME coin, just two faces,

    and they are FULL, or near about, the times of the Gentiles are full,

    Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to relay here is that this Matrix is a lot larger than just the few fundie wacko churches, and what is going to be more increasing IS the increase of numbers of people that will flock To these types of cults and how these cults are going [or the cult teachings] increase in the Mainstream--they are already There, just not AS blunt as the fundies,

    but it will come more to the forefront. Now whether the resistance to this will increase, I really don't know, I tend to think the persecution of those who resist will increase,

    but what keeps coming strong to me, in writing this, or what needs to be relayed, is that the Real danger is not just the authoritarian engineering/brainwashing, but the blood letting and the WHY the reason For that,

    and this is where, knowing the dialectic in OT is so very important as well as knowing those ancient beliefs/what they mean, ancient Mesopotamia/etc., because they are here once more, again,

    just many don't Believe in this, they think it's just outdated and all that--but I can vouch, they are not and they are right there, right in front of us..many just don't See it, and I think, that's probably the most concerning of all.



  17. Thank you for addressing this, Lewis. I have quite the education on DD, and if you ever need someone to "interview" for your blog, you know how to get in touch w/me. I'd love to help with your project in whatever way I can.

  18. Kaylyn...Thank you so much. I'll be taking you up on that. You have a voice here, and the floor will always be open for you to use it however you choose.

  19. please keep writing. i need to hear from a man over and over how wrong it is.

  20. Did you ever continue this topic, Lewis? If so, where?

  21. Retha...I haven't to date. I hope to in the future, but it might be a while before I go into it in any kind of depth.

  22. Hi everyone, I'm a young writer just starting out and I have been researching Christian domestic discipline, among other more commonly known abuses, for several years in the hopes of writing a novel and later a short screenplay on the subject. If anyone would be willing to speak to me and share experiences I would love to hear from you - everything would be kept completely confidential. You can get in touch via