tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post850087920620775012..comments2024-01-04T15:56:19.156-05:00Comments on Commandments of Men: "You need to just let it go and move on with your life."Lewishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-60858759626026545772012-08-19T15:50:46.422-04:002012-08-19T15:50:46.422-04:00Amen Lewis! Very, very well said!Amen Lewis! Very, very well said!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-34385267072440720722011-12-25T01:17:14.966-05:002011-12-25T01:17:14.966-05:00dear anonymous, i don't know your situation &a...dear anonymous, i don't know your situation & am truly sorry for what you have had to live through. i can relate with your pain and needing a release. i can assure you that Lewis is safe and this is a place you can find refuge. i am also going through a painful spiritual abusive situation and ppl like lewis really do care and is the real deal. thank you Lewis for your heart! i <3 you!!!froglahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285825751301910324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-76928926007775296032011-10-16T00:18:18.547-04:002011-10-16T00:18:18.547-04:00Hello Lewis, I just came across your blog recently...Hello Lewis, I just came across your blog recently. It is such a relief to see a MAN stepping out of his comfort zone to say that these things are wrong, that spiritual abuse DOES indeed exist. Thank you for caring enough for others by taking the time to share your story and blog about these issues. Thank you so much.<br /><br />I feel so much pain and I sometimes wonder if it will ever stop hurting. I wish I could find a safe place to talk about this and find help to heal. I'm so discouraged by pastors who don't understand or who merely brush you off like another customer after you 20 min. session. They don't understand the searing pain one feels. If only they knew. <br /><br />It's so scary to talk about these things, sometimes, you know? Probably the only reason I wrote this is because I have the option of being anonymous. I wonder how many anonymous people are out there who wish they could find the courage to speak about the abuse they lived. God help us.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-30181136153491597122011-09-12T12:13:55.263-04:002011-09-12T12:13:55.263-04:00Duly noted: http://www.nakedpastor.com/2011/06/18/...Duly noted: http://www.nakedpastor.com/2011/06/18/bad-samaritan/Erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09440250912113010049noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-32722115497946176622011-09-07T22:51:28.681-04:002011-09-07T22:51:28.681-04:00I hope everyone is reading through the comments on...I hope everyone is reading through the comments on this post. <br /><br />The comments you guys have made are <em>incredibly</em> sharp, introspective, educational, and about a million other positive adjectives.<br /><br />You guys rock.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-72407756151431026112011-09-05T08:48:27.289-04:002011-09-05T08:48:27.289-04:00Gold stars for Kristen!
(I went through ACoA too!...Gold stars for Kristen!<br /><br />(I went through ACoA too! At the time, they included religion as something that could also be an addiction- and I did not get that at the time at all. Oh, how clear it is now!)<br /><br />That's it: the three unspoken rules of dysfunction: Don't feel, Don't trust, Don't tell.<br /><br />Thanks for trusting us with your feelings, Lewis, and telling the world about what you experienced! No doubt it is very inspiring for those struggling to break out of dysfunction, and very unsettling for those contributing to it. n_nshadowspringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15172112981244682382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-79072823240556126212011-09-04T19:37:35.467-04:002011-09-04T19:37:35.467-04:00When I was going through recovery as an adult chil...When I was going through recovery as an adult child of alcoholics, I learned that this is one of the main characteristics of dysfunction: the hidden rule, "Don't talk. Don't tell. Sweep it under the carpet. Pretend it's not there." <br /><br />And the cure is this: "Talk about it. Tell what needs to be told. Pull it out from under the carpet. Allow no more excuses for pretending it isn't there."<br /><br />I am certain that at least some of the motivations behind "just move on" come from that dysfunctional mentality. The answer to "just move on" is, "I AM moving on. This is how I am doing it. Talking about it is part of the cure-- not just for me, but for the dysfunction itself, as it exists in our world."<br /><br />John 3:20 says, "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed." Those of us who are coming out of dysfunction are coming into the light-- and the deeds of dysfunction are being exposed. This is the best thing that could happen, both for us and for everyone still in the darkness.Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252374623355509404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-88093384425491198302011-09-04T17:07:00.742-04:002011-09-04T17:07:00.742-04:00Our experience wasn't with PFQ, though we have...Our experience wasn't with PFQ, though we have run into them via homeschooling. Our's involved esoteric Christianity, and centered on our children. When we left, we had no friends and our children's friends treated them as though they did not exist. Several families followed us away from the movement, into another situation, and the shunning continued.<br /><br />It hurt to see what happened to our children, and they never fully recovered from it. It hurt to know that we were responsible, unknowingly so, but still responsible.<br /><br />I participated in a support group for a while. It was painful to be labeled "bitter" and " one who throws the baby out..." I was the defective one and needed to "purify my heart".<br /><br />Meeting PQF families was a trigger that brought a lot of it back--something about they way they dressed/acted made my skin crawl. Also there was something about their children that made me think abuse or "damaged little zombies". <br /><br />I found this blog looking for information about what I had bumped into and why it caused such a reaction in me. Not quite the same, but too similar for comfort.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-60805122359187309332011-09-03T17:18:41.463-04:002011-09-03T17:18:41.463-04:00Of course they want you to move on ....because if ...Of course they want you to move on ....because if you do, you won't be ministering to people hurt by these false teachers. <br /><br />It is like Satan say, Oh surely God did not mean....<br /><br />You have seen and experienced the evil done in His Name. You have a duty to warn and minister to others.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-30067066030095417252011-09-03T16:21:45.704-04:002011-09-03T16:21:45.704-04:00"You can't just pack up the scars of spir..."You can't just pack up the scars of spiritual abuse and go on. It's just not possible. And it isn't born of bitterness. It is born of being truly damaged by people you trusted." -- One of the BEST statements on this topic that I've ever heard, AmieLou!<br /><br />What folks who say things like "let it go and move on" don't understand, is: we can't let it go. Or perhaps it's better that I speak for myself, I can't just let it go. It's like a rattlesnake that has sunk its fangs so deep into me, that I can't shake it off. If I could, I really would. <br /><br />"You just need to forgive" and "if you don't forgive, then it's YOU who are in trouble w/God" -- also two of my "favorites". Phrases that tend to be spoken by people who've never had anything really bad happen to them in a church or at the hands of a religious leader that they trusted. You know, the types that have had the good fortune to get saved in really good churches. The worst thing that's ever happened to them is that someone sat in their pew.<br /><br />Thank you for posting this piece, Lewis, and thanks for your blog in general. My backround isn't precisely P/QF, but the spiritual blackmail & the deception & the resulting damage are amazingly similiar.Pamelanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-64870978569003714552011-09-01T19:46:48.059-04:002011-09-01T19:46:48.059-04:00I wonder if anyone would have dared to say "y...I wonder if anyone would have dared to say "you need to just let it go and move on" to John Walsh (for example). The murder of his son Adam has permanently changed him. He started a non-profit dedicated to legislative reform to help protect victims, which led to the "Missing Children Act of 1982". He is also well-known for being the host of the long-running TV show, "America's Most Wanted." He serves on the board of directors for the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. As far as I know, no one is telling him that he needs to move on. He still suffers the pain of his loss, I'm sure. But in a way he is moving on, moving on by helping other parents so that they don't experience the pain he has experienced, by helping other children and saving them from a similar fate to what his son suffered. <br /><br />I think with your blog you are doing much the same thing. You are trying to help others in your situation, and you are trying to show others your personal experiences (experiences that you are not alone in) with patriarchy/QF. Yes, moving on is good. We can't be in a constant pity party for ourselves (I don't think this is true of you!). <br /><br />But I think some people don't realize that maybe in a way you are moving on by writing, by trying to help other people. Empathy is powerful. I'm sure there have been a number of people in a situation similar to yours who have been helped by this blog, whose hearts are a little lighter knowing someone else understands their pain, someone else truly knows what they have been through. Andi in the comments said: "God has used me so much in helping others through their own loss and I refuse to shut up and 'get over it'. It's made me who I am today and if my story brings hope and comfort to one person then the pain had a purpose." I agree.<br /><br />Keep up the good work, Lewis!<br /><br />-JSAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-15245878962115079662011-09-01T19:36:00.082-04:002011-09-01T19:36:00.082-04:00Oh, that accusation of bitterness! It is so painf...Oh, that accusation of bitterness! It is so painful, and yet so predictable.<br /><br /><br />Accusing hurting, angry people of bitterness is easy. It's just another way of saying, "nuh-uh, YOU'RE the problem!". It's so mean, and yet so many people indulge in it.<br /><br />I think it's because the accusers feel threatened by the truth the wounded person is telling. They have an investment in that power structure personally, and if the wounded person turns out to be telling the truth, they have been investing in the wrong place. That's embarrassing to admit; better shame that wounded person and shut them up quick. Calling the bitter is the quickest way to end the conversation.<br /><br />Do they care that they have wounded you further? Probably not. The fear they feel at having their foundations threatened trumps their concern for your heart, if they ever had any.<br /><br />The only other reason people accuse the wounded of bitterness is this: they will admit to the abuse, but they have decided to excuse it and stay in it for whatever reason. They don't really want you to remind them of their plight, nor do they want you to escape. They just want you to shut up and pretend with them.<br /><br />No one- no one- is qualified to diagnose "a root of bitterness" in another person, except the Spirit himself. He is the Good Shepherd, and we can all trust him to take care of his own.shadowspringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15172112981244682382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-65509005632900544512011-09-01T15:08:06.988-04:002011-09-01T15:08:06.988-04:00I experienced spiritual abuse teaching in a an &qu...I experienced spiritual abuse teaching in a an "interdenominational" Christian school. They beat me down so much that I thought I couldn't leave because no one else would hire such a bad person and bad teacher. They destroyed my faith and it took eight years to find my way back to God. They ruined my ability to work normally with others or relate in a healthy way to authority figures in the workplace. They stole six years of my life in which I didn't have normal friendships or relationships. <br /><br />And when I was still recovering, a friend who knew the place well, chose to not go with "move on" or that yadayada BS...she hit it much harder. She preached at me that I was bitter and that bitterness was a sin and that if I didn't get over it God would punish me. It was like the abuse was starting over again. <br /><br />People don't get it. She wanted to hold on to her faith in the doctrine that the school espoused and to do so, she had to pretend that they meant well and that there was something wrong with how I responded to them. <br /><br />You can't just pack up the scars of spiritual abuse and go on. It's just not possible. And it isn't born of bitterness. It is born of being truly damaged by people you trusted.AmieLouhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10543171815602322808noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-64357631016193971132011-09-01T12:20:25.809-04:002011-09-01T12:20:25.809-04:00Lewis
I came across your site from the Quivering D...Lewis<br />I came across your site from the Quivering Daughters blog. I have been lurking for a few months now. I myself, did not grow up in this kind of environment but my husband did. He comes from a divorced family and his mother got into this whole movement for many, many years. The odd thing about it is that his mom took on the "head of the household" role and tried so hard to break my husband and I up while we were dating. Her abuse has totally turned my husband off to anything to do with God (not that this is your situation). I find your blog very helpful as I was the outsider in all the madness as well. <br /><br />I do have to say that I completely understand the need to heal in our own times. This is totally off subject, but my husband and I have 3 children and we lost 2 children to miscarriage. The last miscarriage was 3 yrs ago and I've since had another child but I still think about the babies I lost all the time. People always say to me "It's been X amount of years why do you still talk about it. Get over it." There are some things you don't just move on and get over. That experience will forever be part of my life. I never knew what a big impact that they would have on my life, and how many people have been helped because I have been through it. I still tell people and recounting the loss still brings up the pain. In fact I just spoke about it to a woman this week. Are the thoughts there every day? No. Has time made it easier? Yes. But the fact is this is now part of who I am. What good would it do me to shut up and never talk about it. God has used me so much in helping others through their own loss and I refuse to shut up and "get over it". It's made me who I am today and if my story brings hope and comfort to one person then the pain had a purpose. <br /><br />Like I said, I know that it's not the same situation exactly but I do know the feeling. I encourage to keep on talking and sharing as long as you live. And if people have a problem with that, well then, that's their problem.Andihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08340523158811255964noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-56913531351934522802011-09-01T11:23:51.105-04:002011-09-01T11:23:51.105-04:00@ Jenny,
I was also frustrated with my lack of pro...@ Jenny,<br />I was also frustrated with my lack of productiveness, but this was because my body and mind was telling me put all my energies to healing from the abuse. A large part of my healing process was reading blogs like this one. I liken the healing process to having a deep injury and wanting to get mobile again but your physical body says "no, I need to heal this before you can start with any activities". I am a mother of nine children and was only briefly involved in the VF scene. It took me over a year to get some degree of concentration back to my normal life. My advice is to listen to your body and soul so that you can move forward in life as a healed person- not a crippled one. My two cents.Annnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-54099266058289639772011-08-31T21:56:16.260-04:002011-08-31T21:56:16.260-04:00"If you don't understand the wound, rathe..."If you don't understand the wound, rather than offering your own ignorant observation on how the person suffering from it should dress it, treat it, and heal from it, be quiet so that maybe you can learn something about it."<br /><br />It's what I am slowly learning to do - being quiet and listening to the voices of the abused. It's not always easy, but I am slowly realizing that this is necessary.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-65208504198624255272011-08-31T17:23:22.901-04:002011-08-31T17:23:22.901-04:00>> If you think spiritual and emotional reco...>> If you think spiritual and emotional recovery is a formula... feigned attitudes and empty behaviors - "put the past behind you", "move forward", "be positive", yadda yadda - you still haven't moved beyond the formulaic lifestyles and mindsets of the groups you think you're "out" of. <<<br /><br />Bookmarking. Well said.<br /><br />>> the ideas themselves - patriarchy, human authority structures, courtship, quiverfull, et cetera - ARE the toxins, ARE the spiritual abuse.... It's ALL bad. It has no merit. Throw it out.... ALL of them are legalistic. ALL of them are spiritually abusive. ALL of them are oppressive. <<<br /><br />Sometimes we hear people say "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water". The truth is... sometimes that 'baby' is really just a zombie who is wearing the carcass of its latest victim. Assume anything abusive has nothing good and rebuild from scratch. Better to scorch the earth and start over than to deal with infection from an enemy who left behind landmines.TreasureSeekerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04119146831238895695noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-49278511189250778502011-08-31T16:35:47.337-04:002011-08-31T16:35:47.337-04:00For some people, the admonishment to "move on...For some people, the admonishment to "move on" is a cliche like other equally annoying phrases like "take one day at a time". These people mean well and do not realize that their thoughtlessness can be very hurtful. <br /><br />Other people can be very harsh and judgemental with this phrase. Their admonishment to "move on" is intended to be a criticism of an abuse victim. What they mean is that they are not satisified with how an abuse victim is healing. They think the victim should be healing faster or is making too much of it.<br /><br />It is very hard to distinguish people's motives when they use this phrase, so I prefer to just not say anything about myself at all. I am polite and friendly but wary and wait until I know a person better before revealing anything at all of myself. Even innocous comments about not having much family contact can be enough to trigger harsh judgement among Christians who believe familiness is equal to Godliness.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-91892816978496049842011-08-31T14:09:44.603-04:002011-08-31T14:09:44.603-04:00Speaking up is part of moving on, I think. Like yo...Speaking up is part of moving on, I think. Like you said, Lewis, this is not all about us. My writing against William Branham is not just my chance to complain about what happened to me. It's my chance to let other people coming after me know that they are understood. It's to comfort people who have that nagging feeling that there's something wrong and yet they feel crazy because they seem to be alone. It's about warning people who are enticed by fundamentalism that it's what it appears to be. Those are all acts of service, not selfishness. Telling our stories just happens to be the most effective, most personal and most real ways of helping others. Nobody needs another preacher telling them how things are; they need to hear other life experiences.Sierrahttp://nonprophetmessage.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-42005965447259746292011-08-31T13:58:34.666-04:002011-08-31T13:58:34.666-04:00"the ideas themselves - patriarchy, human aut..."the ideas themselves - patriarchy, human authority structures, courtship, quiverfull, et cetera - ARE the toxins, ARE the spiritual abuse. Doesn't matter if it's Gothard teaching it or Batman teaching it. It's ALL bad. It has no merit. Throw it out. Regarding issues of faith, external solutions to internal issues are all bad. ALL of them are legalistic. ALL of them are spiritually abusive. ALL of them are oppressive."<br /><br />To use some Christianese:<br /><br />AMEN BROTHER LEWIS!!!shadowspringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15172112981244682382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-65676888388069526632011-08-31T11:40:55.904-04:002011-08-31T11:40:55.904-04:00I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorde...I was diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder last year after a very traumatic childhood and marriage. I have had symptoms of ptsd since I was a teenager 40 years ago and the diagnosis was really a label for what I have always known about myself. For so long, I have been ashamed of myself for not being normal and I tried very hard to pretend to be normal. I would watch and observe people very carefully so I could learn what "normal" is and give a "normal" response to various situations.<br /><br />If I did dare to share something of myself, I would get the "you should move on" response which was very hurtful because I was in fact trying very hard to move on. Now I have a much stronger sense of self-worth and I realize that I do not have to prove I am normal or that I have "moved on". I am coping with my experiences as best as I can and at my own pace. Tough luck and too bad to those people who are not happy with my healing process.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-1849626110604656022011-08-31T02:02:47.469-04:002011-08-31T02:02:47.469-04:00How can you move on from something that's stil...How can you move on from something that's still happening? Every day people are hurt by things like this. I don't think someone blogging about (and arguing against) child slavery, having once been a child slave, would be told "just move on." <br /><br />I have been out for two years and not had contact with half of my siblings for all of that time. It's going to take me a long, long time to be able to move past that. In fact, I don't think I can. Especially while it's still current - I still have to face that rejection every day, and I miss them all the time.Bonniehttp://www.generalismo.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-91569037307668588472011-08-31T00:33:01.160-04:002011-08-31T00:33:01.160-04:00Well, you might be entirely correct about your exp...Well, you might be entirely correct about your experiences, and regardless, there's no excuse for her being so rude about it. However, I have been on both sides of the unfair assumption that not agreeing means not understanding. Because of how emotionally-charged conversations on this subject can be, it's not entirely clear to me that anything said on either side would be coherent and rational. :/Jennyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11046641822669890457noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-52226930341214723102011-08-31T00:26:00.263-04:002011-08-31T00:26:00.263-04:00@Jenny...Maybe a better way for me to put it is th...@Jenny...Maybe a better way for me to put it is this...<br /><br />Some of the people I've seen these statements from recently see the problems the spiritually abused have as just a sort of disagreement over a doctrine - rather than recognizing the doctrines themselves as the toxin. Their focus is on the disagreement, which is why they can suggest just washing one's hands of the situation and moving on.<br /><br />Darcy can attest to one such exchange that she I and both were involved in just yesterday. The person in question had NO understanding of the experiences of the people involved, and just kept sticking her foot deeper in her mouth, and saying more discouraging and diminishing things to hurting people, every time she commented.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-71697908930543376202011-08-31T00:12:11.371-04:002011-08-31T00:12:11.371-04:00You shouldn't discount others' ability to ...<em>You shouldn't discount others' ability to "move on," just because you can't.</em><br /><br />Those making these statements don't understand the issues they're making statements about. That's what disqualifies their opinion.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.com