tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post3516711251930870712..comments2024-01-04T15:56:19.156-05:00Comments on Commandments of Men: Ramblin' Man: Quivering ScripturesLewishttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comBlogger22125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-58641127713964671552012-01-28T00:39:58.783-05:002012-01-28T00:39:58.783-05:00So, in case it wasn't clear, what I mean is: I...So, in case it wasn't clear, what I mean is: I believe this is something God wants to give us. I pray that you *will* see that day, and see the repentance too.Paulanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-5041037740956326412012-01-27T17:25:46.679-05:002012-01-27T17:25:46.679-05:00I know this isn't really on the main topic of ...I know this isn't really on the main topic of the post, but this:<br /><br />"I don't have a thirst for their blood. Yes, I want them to have a reckoning before God (I'd buy a ticket to that one), but not so I can see them punished. I just want to hear them say "I was wrong and I'm sorry" and genuinely mean it. I want to see the realization of the gravity of what they did in their faces."<br /><br />This is really good and really makes sense to me. This is exactly how I felt about my ex. Long story short, I dated a patriarse in the making for two years and it really kinda messed with my head, especially once I started to doubt my faith and he ended up deciding this was sinful. Then I broke up with him and I said one or two things that I suppose sounded a little too liberal to him and he told everyone in his prayer-letter that, basically, I was no longer a Christian and everyone should pray for my soul.<br /><br />And as I was dealing with the anger I ran across an article in Christianity Today by Miroslav Volf and it described just exactly the kind of scenario you just talked about there. The Great White Throne Judgment (as the dispensationalists call it) being, instead of a who's-in-who's-out, a sort of civil court, where God as judge gives us the truth about who has wronged us and who we have wronged, and how. Where people are made to face what they've done to each other. He imagined it followed by the great heavenly reconciliation service. (Which, as someone who went through the civil war in ex-Yugoslavia, he understood the difficulty of.) I guess the whole thing's a bit like a heavenly Truth and Reconciliation meeting. I wish I could find the article, but any way IIRC he had some pretty good biblical basis for his view of what the judgment really meant. The reconciliation part was just common sense.<br /><br />That spoke to me so much. Helped me to forgive, really; the thought that forgiveness, and not wanting him punished, didn't mean that I wouldn't get justice someday, that I wouldn't get God telling him exactly what he put me through and why it was wrong. Because you want that SO much. I think there's something about dealing with people who insist so strongly that they are right and *you're* the sinner, that makes you want that even more.<br /><br />Oddly enough I've never run across anyone else saying this exact thing before. I kinda wondered if I was the only one.Paulanoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-67973865713636096052012-01-12T11:08:45.781-05:002012-01-12T11:08:45.781-05:00Everyone picks and chooses from the Bible - or do ...Everyone picks and chooses from the Bible - or do those calling themselves fundamentalists follow the Jewish laws for kosher food and abstain from wearing clothing made from two kinds of fibre? That is in the Old Testament, too, and the explanations for why some parts of the law (notably about gay people) are supposed to still apply while others don't never made much sense to me.<br />I take Thomas Merton's image of God as 'mercy within mercy within mercy,' because it seems to me an adequate summing-up of what Christ was about, and apply that to my Bible. If I am going to pick and choose - and I clearly am - then I want to do my choosing in a way that I hope would be consistent with how God acted when he walked on earth.lalouvehttp://lalouve.livejournal.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-22030218726125931492012-01-12T08:59:43.567-05:002012-01-12T08:59:43.567-05:00An important post. Very needed.An important post. Very needed.Hillaryhttp://www.quiveringdaughters.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-62469189277166884072012-01-11T13:05:09.426-05:002012-01-11T13:05:09.426-05:00Your post describes exactly where I'm at in re...Your post describes exactly where I'm at in relation to the Bible. Even though I am actually reading the Bible on my own time for the first time in years, I'm only reading through the New Testament - I really just can't stomach the OT God just now. The lines I've been fed justifying what he commanded then just aren't enough anymore.<br /><br />I'm very aware as this decision of mine would be viewed as "creating God in my own image," as I would like him to be instead of accepting him for who he is; many Christians would be so disgusted with me. And yet since this seems to be the only way for me to have a relationship with God, I don't care. I'm approaching God cautiously and thinking through every belief carefully before claiming it as my own. It's slow going, but it's such a satisfaction to me to realiaze that these are my OWN beliefs, not my parents, but mine.Rebecca Newmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03935383254039552080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-64115410373463906692012-01-11T11:05:20.390-05:002012-01-11T11:05:20.390-05:00@Retha "timmy boy's" name is Speed T...@Retha "timmy boy's" name is Speed Timothy Rathbun. He's the cult leader/prophet of my soon to be ex hubs cult called "trumpetcallofgod". Sry I didn't do a gr8 job explaining. the hubs grew up patriarch/semi quiverfull (gothard) & he's been cult hopping his entire life. he grew up under the "biblical law" Lewis speaks of & his so called prophet cult leader has these "thus says the lord" "letters" that they call the new testament a.k.a "biblical law". it's crazy stuff!! I hope that clarifies what I failed to make clear. <br /><br />@lewis didn't mean to derail the convo!froglahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17285825751301910324noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-63156189061746307772012-01-10T23:14:26.621-05:002012-01-10T23:14:26.621-05:00Anonymous...The next time you tell me you love me,...Anonymous...The next time you tell me you love me, should I believe you?...or should I remember the comment you made at 10:03?<br /><br />I'll leave it at that.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-58128500661878361852012-01-10T22:15:41.975-05:002012-01-10T22:15:41.975-05:00I'm pretty sure I know who you are, and I'...I'm pretty sure I know who you are, and I'm trying hard to be gracious...<br /><br />Just stop. Really.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-29709978714748951332012-01-10T22:03:15.871-05:002012-01-10T22:03:15.871-05:00it seems as you believe nothing at all, you would ...it seems as you believe nothing at all, you would remove one part i guess we pick and choose what is ,it seems you have an inner problem with rejection and need to get over it pray the LORD helps youAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-85403845303649833752012-01-10T21:10:53.052-05:002012-01-10T21:10:53.052-05:00That's a very unthinking comment. Know WHY you...That's a very unthinking comment. Know WHY you believe what you believe, or you really believe nothing at all.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-59445042398395706002012-01-10T20:00:02.856-05:002012-01-10T20:00:02.856-05:00it looks like somebody doesnt understand the bible...it looks like somebody doesnt understand the bible ,the ot passages in the light of Jesus christ open eye to understanding you think paul preached with nt or ot wake up repent and Jesus may open your eyes if bible is wrong on one part its wrong on all parts i glad satan has not decieved meAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-315117479488537192012-01-10T16:56:06.905-05:002012-01-10T16:56:06.905-05:00QF/P seem to not accept the New Testament or that ...QF/P seem to not accept the New Testament or that Christ died for the forgiveness of sins. They are just about legalism. I think ATI/IBLP type QF (certain tv family comes to mind) worship Solomon and his wisdom and sort of throw in other aspects of the Bible to look Christian.Hopewellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02510172065585770709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-28356322699587948962012-01-10T15:49:41.295-05:002012-01-10T15:49:41.295-05:00Paul said, "We see through a glass, dimly&quo...Paul said, "We see through a glass, dimly" in 1 Cor. 13:12. I think that for the Old Testament tribes, the glass was even dimmer. Still, God's light shines through in unexpected places. For instance, Jeremiah 48:10, which Lewis cites above, is about judgment on Moab, and it expresses, I believe, the hatred of self-righteous enemies which are prophesied to come against that tribe-- but they are followed by these remarkable words (God is the speaker): "Therefore I will wail over Moab; for all Moab I cry out. I mourn for the men of Kir Hareseth. I weep for you. . . my heart laments for Moab like a flute. . . " (verses 31 and 36)<br /><br />We have to take into account God's accommodation of the cultures with which He interacted. We have to take into account that prophesies are largely poetic and symbolic in nature-- particularly a book like Ezekiel, also cited above, which abounds in symbols and figurative language. We have to take into account that the savagery of the tribal mentality is just as present as the voice of God-- and how to distinguish the two. <br /><br />When we do that, we can also hear the heart of the Father Whom Jesus revealed.Kristenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08252374623355509404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-69514172815386575222012-01-10T15:46:54.509-05:002012-01-10T15:46:54.509-05:00@Retha...His full name escapes me at the moment, b...@Retha...His full name escapes me at the moment, but he's the leader of the "Trumpet of God" cult.Lewishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05596138376570543467noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-58632168905195657012012-01-10T15:35:05.370-05:002012-01-10T15:35:05.370-05:00Excuse my ignorance, but who is "timmy boy&qu...Excuse my ignorance, but who is "timmy boy"?Rethahttp://biblicalpersonhood.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-85000903915326757062012-01-10T11:24:49.322-05:002012-01-10T11:24:49.322-05:00More on the importance of "I don't know&q...More on the importance of "I don't know"... What struck me a while back- and this is no great revelation,-is that the more you dig into the pre-supposition theology-and this can be true in any arena, not just Christianity- is that fear and defensiveness are the driving force. Now, I will always defend Christ- but that's because I love Him, not because He needs me to help Him! After years of observing the quiverful, patriarch, young earth,courtship, Christian dominion people I believe that for many of them, their ENTIRE FAITH is built upon their unproven theories being right. (Makes me think of "My faith is built on nothing less than Jesus Christ..)". I fear that if any chink was found in their fortress of often unfounded notions, that they would perhaps no longer believe in the existence of God Himself.<br /><br />Presupposition is something that the more you start looking, the more you find. I have noticed some other out on a limb ideas recently that I'll write about later. All I'm saying is that though I may disagree with ideas of many people on this forum, it's neither here nor there as far as my faith. If I am wrong, it's just that I am wrong! (of course, there are some ideas that I do think are just plain evil and destructive to people, and I'll stand firm on some of those things-fathers owning daughters for one) But I think in particular of the science related stuff here.I've read some authors who,I suspect,would pretty much lose faith if somebody proved them wrong. Also, I know of some families that have abandoned Christ because someone got divorced,got pregnant, ran off with an atheist, etc. etc... <br /><br />One of my favorite sayings (paraphrased) is by John Newton... "When I was young, I knew everything...now all I know is that I am a sinner and Christ is my savior." Not a bad idea.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-71851153933482497762012-01-10T10:47:59.173-05:002012-01-10T10:47:59.173-05:00I take a little issue with lumping the atrocities ...I take a little issue with lumping the atrocities in the OT with the whole of the OT. There are two threads -- Marcus Borg calls them "conventional wisdom" and "unconventional wisdom" (for more info, see http://www.aportraitofjesus.org/wisdom1.shtml ) -- that run throughout both the Old and New Testaments. Conventional wisdom is just as it sounds. God is on our sides, tradition is imporant, women should submit, know your place, do the right rituals, etc. It is a conservative wisdom. Unconventional wisdom may be strongest in the gospels (as conventional wisdom may be strongest in the pseudopauline epistles), but is present in the Old Testament as well. It is subversive, values social justice, and tears down barriers. "And you are to love those who are aliens, for you yourselves were aliens in Egypt," says Deuteronomy. "For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings," says Hosea (whom God had live out a morality play by marrying a prostitute).Joyhttp://dukesofearl.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-12965618652278573722012-01-10T10:22:00.409-05:002012-01-10T10:22:00.409-05:00Lewis: "It might be in the best interest of o...Lewis: "It might be in the best interest of our faith to consider that maybe the OT writers didn't always "get" God...<br /><br /><br />...and neither do we."<br /><br />Yea, and Amen. [excuse the Christianese ;) ]<br /><br />So many people don't realize that we tend to make God in our image or an image of what we think God should be.<br />It is a struggle for all of us, to find who God really is. The danger comes when people think they have God all figured out then impose what they figured out on others.<br /><br />Another good post, Lewis.Mara Reidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385458933795539928noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-5365965429686338462012-01-10T10:16:38.039-05:002012-01-10T10:16:38.039-05:00That last line says it all. Well done.That last line says it all. Well done.Amandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14775794907218052899noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-89447858237517044122012-01-10T09:53:05.473-05:002012-01-10T09:53:05.473-05:00"I don't know" might just be some of..."I don't know" might just be some of the holiest words we can say...and SO seldom said! Thank you for sharing these thoughts.Lauranoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-69921500617296343532012-01-10T08:54:56.895-05:002012-01-10T08:54:56.895-05:00Excellent writing, Lewis. It can't be that yo...Excellent writing, Lewis. It can't be that you and I are the only people coming to these conclusions. I totally and completely understand where you are coming from. I love your phrase 'bibliolatry' because it is so succint.<br /><br />I was also taught that Jesus was the personification of God. God makes it plain on the Mount of Transfiguration: Moses and Elijah knew God, but Jesus was the One to whom we owe our attention and obedience. Jesus is the beloved Son that the Father commanded us to "hear". He clearly shut down Peter's idea that the law and the prophets were on the same level as the life and words of Jesus Christ.<br /><br />Jesus is worth following. Paul is not. Moses is not. David is not. None of the lesser prophets and scribes were equal to Jesus either. Fundamentalism came up with this false doctrine, that since Jesus is the Logos made flesh, and we call this collection of writings the Word of God, then the whole Bible = Jesus. God himself however, refutes that logic with a cloud of glory and a voice from heaven. I am going with the testimony of God over the doctrines of men.<br /><br />Interestingly, the pastor who later turned out to be such a jerk, gave an early clue. He said once, out of nowhere as far as I'm concerned but it must have been relevant to what he was reading I guess, that he DID NOT TRUST PEOPLE WHO ONLY FOCUSED ON THE LIFE OF CHRIST. I was incredulous. How could focusing on the life of Christ be bad?<br /><br />I guess because he is a bibliolator. :\shadowspringhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15172112981244682382noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6879552692521649812.post-13572778411847973052012-01-10T08:19:22.801-05:002012-01-10T08:19:22.801-05:00This past year and a half, I have come to see the ...This past year and a half, I have come to see the bible in a whole new way. I so appreciate your take on it.Erika Martin - Stampin' Mamahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15654013636892916062noreply@blogger.com